Author Topic: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions  (Read 14043 times)

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Saeomon

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Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« on: December 20, 2010, 05:16:02 PM »
I've been contemplating the ratings I've given to the various Psionic PrCs in my guide. I'm wondering if some of them need to be revised up or down. Here are the ratings I've given to each of them, underneath the Spoiler. I've only included the PrCs officially statted out, not suggested adaptations or homebrew.

Psionic Prestige Classes
[spoiler]
Anarchic InitiateBody LeechCerebremancer (XPH, SRD)
The Psionic equivalent of the Mystic Theurge. Due to the multiclassing requirement, you'll feel behind your single-classed counterparts for much of the game. Exception: this PrC is a green choice in campaigns that begin at high levels, so long as you focus on one side of the progression to secure 9th level spells or powers.

Cognition Thief (PGF)
Loses too many ML.

ConstructorException: this PrC either wreaks havoc on the CPsi nerf to Astral Construct, or the CPsi nerf wreaks havoc on it. If your DM rules that this PrC ignores the nerf, but that the nerf is otherwise in effect, this PrC tips over into the purple category. If your DM rules that the nerf applies to this PrC, this PrC becomes somewhat less attractive, and dips down into green territory.

CryokineticistredCrystal MasterDiamond DragonEbon SaintEctopic Adept (CPsi)
This PrC is redException:green.

ElocaterException: if you are playing a gish-type character that is primarily melee fighter and secondarily a manifester, such as Ranger 4/Psion 1, this PrC may be green or even blue, depending on your exact build.

Fist of Zuoken (XPH)/Psionic Fist (SRD) (XPH, SRD)
The Psionic Monk. Has its own manifester level and power progression. Not a good choice, for that reason. Exception: a blue choice for any non-Psionic Monk-type character who wants psionic powers without the Psion's weak BAB. Consider one level in this PrC followed by a full progression in Slayer.

Flayerspawn PsychicredException: the text ALSO suggests that the PrC gains the Illithid Blast feature as a Supernatural ability. If so, then the PrC is black. Confirm with your DM which option he or she will enforce before giving this PrC any consideration.

Illithid Slayer (XPH)/Slayer (SRD)
Two versions of this PrC exist. The SRD version is better than the XPH version due to the relaxed entry requirements. You get full BAB and eventually immunity to Mind-Affecting effects while psionically focused. This immunity is SUPERIOR to Mind Blank, as does not block friendly Mind-Affecting effects! Those, alone, are worthwhile trade-offs. The class also grants you proficiency with all Simple and Martial weapons and all kinds of armor, but not shields, while requiring no such proficiencies in the first place. The proficiencies make Illithid Slayer/Slayer a good springboard class into other gish PrCs that do require such proficiencies.

Iron MindMeditantMetamind (XPH, SRD)
This PrC is broken, and not in the good way. The loss of 5 manifester levels (!) is what kills it.

Psion UncarnatePsychic AssassinPsychic TheurgeException: if you have access to the Archivist from Heroes of Horror, this is a green choice. Note that that has more to do with the sheer power and versatility of the Archivist more than it has anything to do with what Psion contributes to the build.

Psychic Weapon MasterPyrokineticistException: three levels will get you better saves and BAB than a single-classed Psion, plus two infinite-use ranged touch attack abilities, and therefore, rates black as an option.

Pyrokineticist Variantsthree-level dip in either Acetokineticist or Sonokineticist a green choice under the base rules. Exceptions:Sonokineticist becomes green for the full 10 levels, and it becomes blue for a three-level dip. Cryokineticist is green for a three-level dip. Otherwise, the rankings remain unchanged from the base rules.

Quori Mindhunter (MoE)
Generally exclusive to Eberron. You get a d6 hit die, a better BAB, and lose one ML. The abilities you get are pretty nice, especially since a few are bonus powers known. On the other hand, the more interesting powers of the PrC involve possession, which is a rather rare campaign feature, and the prerequisites are crappy.

Quori Nightmare (RoE)
For PCs, this is Kalashtar-specific, so it's generally Eberron-specific. You get better BAB, more skill points, a d8 hit die, and some interesting abilities. Those abilities are fear effects, mind you, which are often resisted at higher levels. You also lose a ML. But, for a 5-level psionic PrC, of which there aren't many, this isn't bad.

Sanctified Mind (LoM)
The BAB, feat and weapon proficiency requirements suck, but what you get out of this PrC is great: full BAB and almost full manifesting. The first level class feature is also one of the only ways in the game to avoid two particularly nasty status conditions. A very good PrC for any gish Psion.

SangehirnShadowmindSoul ManifesterStorm DiscipleSubverted PsionThrallherd (XPH, SRD)
When does a PrC that loses 2 manifester levels and which has sub-par entry requirements get to be a purpleWarmindException: for otherwise non-Psionic melee characters, this is a blue choice. The 5th level ability is particularly awesome, and can double any melee combatant's damage output.

Wonderworkerred rating.

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sir_argenon

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 06:23:06 PM »
constructor is sick awesome, but i am torn with the last level, is it worth losing ANOTHER ML just for free quickens when you have linked power shenanigans?

carnivore

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 06:34:43 PM »
heres what i would do:

Anarchic Initiate:
not because you might want to be a Blaster ..... simply because of the easy entry Reqs, Full Manifesting, 3/4 BAB:
Psion 6/ Anarchic initiate 4/ Slayer 10 = BAB +16, 19th lvl ML = Awesome, only two feats needed



Cerebremancer: even with Wizard 3/Psion 7/ Cerebremancer 10, you will be far ahead of a comparable Psion 20, simply for the versatility and Power Wizard brings.... although your Psion side might be a little weaker .... you still manifest 9th lvl powers and cast 7th lvl Spells(Celerity,Arcane Fusion,etc...) and can make your spells last a long time and can add Metamagic Effects with Rods..... if you use Warmage or Beguiler with Early entry it should be Cerebremancer .... Warmage 2/ Psion 8/ Cerebremancer 10
gets 7th lvl Spells also with Versatile Caster.... and with Arcane Disciple, you can cast Divine Spells too


Constructor: .... actually i prefer this to thrallherd


Psychic Theurge:
...... with Fast progression PrC(Ur priest, Crusader) this should be Psychic Theurge:... gain 9th Divine and 9th Psionic

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2010, 06:45:56 PM »
just a little adjustment:

Cerebremancer can be a more variable rating.... depending on the Arcane Casting Class used:

Warmage
Beguiler
Wizard ... depending on what is allowed   
Sorceror   
Bard
Bard+Sublime Chord
Duskblade

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2010, 09:22:26 PM »
I LOVE constructor. It's my favorite PrC bar-none. And in its own way it's better than thrallherd, 'cuz DMs won't ban it. If you go warforged and take a psicrystal, then take advantage of ecto protection's caveat on becoming a swift action + Linked Power + astral construct, you can actually make use of those near-otherwise-useless powers.

Also, metamind is awesome...during epic. Take Practiced Manifester and it's de facto better than levels in more psion, especially if you take a dip in another manifesting class first. So, psion 10/anarchic initiate 10/ardent 1/metamind XXX nets you increasing manifester level even unto epic (using metamind to advance ardent post-epic). It's good stuff, really.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 09:29:41 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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snakeman830

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 09:26:57 PM »
EDIT: I was thinking a Hyperconcious PrC.  Carry on.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 10:32:06 PM »
As for if constructor is more powerful than thrallherd? No. Thrallherd is insane, whereas constructor is merely paranoid.

I like constructor more, however.
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Echoes

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 01:56:57 AM »
Also, metamind is awesome...during epic. Take Practiced Manifester and it's de facto better than levels in more psion, especially if you take a dip in another manifesting class first. So, psion 10/anarchic initiate 10/ardent 1/metamind XXX nets you increasing manifester level even unto epic (using metamind to advance ardent post-epic). It's good stuff, really.

Temporal reiteration also breaks Metamind. Esp. Ardent 10/Metamind 10 with Practiced Manifester and temporal reiteration, which gives you 9th-level powers @ ML 19 and infinite power points + permanent buff durations at the cost of your swift action forever.
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Saeomon

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 02:00:28 AM »
heres what i would do:

Anarchic Initiate:
not because you might want to be a Blaster ..... simply because of the easy entry Reqs, Full Manifesting, 3/4 BAB:
Psion 6/ Anarchic initiate 4/ Slayer 10 = BAB +16, 19th lvl ML = Awesome, only two feats needed

Cerebremancer: even with Wizard 3/Psion 7/ Cerebremancer 10, you will be far ahead of a comparable Psion 20, simply for the versatility and Power Wizard brings.... although your Psion side might be a little weaker .... you still manifest 9th lvl powers and cast 7th lvl Spells(Celerity,Arcane Fusion,etc...) and can make your spells last a long time and can add Metamagic Effects with Rods..... if you use Warmage or Beguiler with Early entry it should be Cerebremancer .... Warmage 2/ Psion 8/ Cerebremancer 10
gets 7th lvl Spells also with Versatile Caster.... and with Arcane Disciple, you can cast Divine Spells too

Constructor: .... actually i prefer this to thrallherd

Psychic Theurge: ...... with Fast progression PrC(Ur priest, Crusader) this should be Psychic Theurge:... gain 9th Divine and 9th Psionic

:D

That, there is a nice Anarchic Initiate build. Hadn't thought of slipping into Slayer after 4 levels.

WITHOUT early entry shenanigans, do you still believe Beguilers and Warblades make worthwhile Cerebremancers?

On a related note to the question about Cerebremancers, and expanding this conversation topic a bit, what's everyone's take on Eldritch Theurge as an adapted PrC for Psions? I feel like it could be tons o' fun, but maybe not that great in the optimization department. On the other hand, being able to Assimilate with a ranged touch attack quite seems like it'd be quite nice.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 02:02:27 AM by Saeomon »

X-Codes

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 02:38:11 AM »
I think a Psion/Warlock Eldritch Theurge would net a mere green.  Too many lost manifester levels IMO.

Garryl

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Re: Psionic Prestige Classes: Help With Ratings Revisions
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 12:09:24 PM »
How do you feel about Iron Mind after going into Slayer? Slayer gives the armor proficiencies which is the biggest hurdle to getting in.
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