Rule for telepathy

[Cagemarrow]

Can anyone point me to rules or descriptions that describe how telepathy works in 3.5? My binder has gained a vestige that grants him telepathy and mind sight out to 100ft, but my gm has limited it to line of effect based on how blindsight works. I didn't think this was how it was supposed to function, but I can't find any rules that contradict this.

The only thing I have been able to find is the link between the formians that would be pointless if it required line of effect. Mindlink and the telepathic bond work as long as the users are on the same plane, but requires a short range with line of effect to establish.

[weenog]

Monster Manual page 316 describes Telepathy.  It isn't conditional on line of sight.

[Cagemarrow]

That's the problem, it doesn't say that it doesn't require line of effect and my DM is ruling that it works just like every other spell and saying that it does. I haven't had any luck finding anything contradictory within any of the FAQs or Rules of the Game articles, nor in expanded psionics or lords of madness.

[Kajhera]

Is it also interfered with by shining a green light on you, since it doesn't say it isn't?

If it doesn't say it requires line of effect, it doesn't. If it says it requires line of effect, it does. There really doesn't need to be anything explicitly saying it anymore than saying it works while a green light is shining on you.

[Cagemarrow]

Because it doesn't say that that it doesn't require line of effect though does that mean it falls under the general rule that Spells, Spell-like, and Supernatural abilities require line of effect?

I'm just trying to find everything my DM has used to rule the ability the way he has. It is definitely more useful if it doesn't.

[weenog]

That's the problem, it doesn't say that it doesn't require line of effect and my DM is ruling that it works just like every other spell and saying that it does. I haven't had any luck finding anything contradictory within any of the FAQs or Rules of the Game articles, nor in expanded psionics or lords of madness.

Point your DM to page 176 of the Player's Handbook, Line of Effect.  Point out that it indicates what a spell can affect, not what magic can affect.  Next point him to page 315 of the Monster Manual, Special Abilities.  It shows that Supernatural effects are their own kind of special ability (not spells, not even spell-like abilities) and describes the general rules for them.  Now send him to Monster Manual page 316 and ask him to tell you whether Telepathy is labeled "(Ex)", "(Sp)", or "(Su)".

Ask him to show you where Supernatural abilities require line of effect by default, while you're at it.

[Cagemarrow]

That should do it. Even looked under the Binder's specific rules for what their vestiges grant and it doesn't say anything about them requiring line of effect in there either.

Thanks. Should help us track down this sniper that keeps shooting us in the maze we're currently exploring.

[Prime32]

How often do you see telepathy in fiction being blocked because someone walked around a corner?

[PhaedrusXY]

How often do you see telepathy in fiction being blocked because someone walked around a corner?

Lead-lined helmets on the other hand should totally block it...

[archangel.arcanis]

Also if your DM insists on taking the "but it doesn't say so" approach. Let him know it doesn't say dead PCs can't still take actions either.

[Havok4]

Also point out that some creatures get telepathy that reaches for miles, if that was blocked by line of sight than it would be virtually useless without a really tall ladder.

[stranglebat]

Poor poor Formian Queen, she would know everything if not for living in a basement

[RobbyPants]

If you're DM's being a stickler on this, you can point him to the standard material blocking effects on spells like Detect magic:

The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

You could see if he'd be cool with telepathy penetrating that much material, and being blocked by more.  This is a 100% house-rule, but he might think it's cool since there's somewhat of a rules precedence for it, and it might grant you some leeway.


Other than that, I'd agree with it not requiring line of effect.

[Shadowhunter]

I'm also in the camp that thinks Telepathy requiring LoS = stupid.

That said, Mindsight 100ft is hard on a DM in the long run.
I know I'm happy to not have to mentally keep track of every thinking thing within 100ft of one of my players. Imagine going through a multilevel dungeon.
You are aware of everything a hundred feet below you. And above. And around. It's a bookkeeping nightmare for most DMs to handle. So I can understand why he's trying to limit you.

[RobbyPants]

You are aware of everything a hundred feet below you. And above. And around. It's a bookkeeping nightmare for most DMs to handle. So I can understand why he's trying to limit you.

That's part of why I proposed a middle-ground house-rule.

I might actually use that!

[Cagemarrow]

I know I haven't been pushing the Mindsight thing as far as I really could, primarily just worrying about adjacent rooms that may contain immediate threats, or specifically looking for things out of place, say a dragon or hobgoblin hiding in with a crowd of humans.

I still haven't heard back from my DM about my response and this thread.

[weenog]

If it helps, you could show him things like Turn Undead in the PHB and Draconic Aura in the PHB2 as examples of supernatural abilities which need line of effect explicitly saying that they do.

[Cagemarrow]

Well after a discussion with my DM we've gone back to the traditional ruling for Mindsight. Brain radar is back online.

Just it time to, this last session would have been a nightmare of ambushes without it.

[weenog]

Good deal.  Nice to hear once in a while about a DM that will listen to reason and precedent and correct his mistakes.