Spiky and Smooth Effectiveness - Why Casters and Martial Adepts Do So Well

[Bloody Initiate]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

[Lycanthromancer]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

[Bloody Initiate]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

Indeed, the Nymphology book was written with mostly medium sized creatures in mind, it's good to know good ol' fashioned creativity is looking after the big folk.

[Lycanthromancer]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

Indeed, the Nymphology book was written with mostly medium sized creatures in mind, it's good to know good ol' fashioned creativity is looking after the big folk.

Hey, Medium and Small creatures can have their fun with it too.

[Sunic_Flames]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

And it might want to take the golem out for some reason? What if it's defending its home (or something in its home)? What if it's defending a town it likes? What if the dragon hates undead (and dead things in general) and it sees one of those corpse collosi?

Dragons are (on average) more intelligent than people. They might have a slightly alien worldview from our perspective, but that doesn't mean they don't have motivation.

So, a random golem just walks in? Yeah, sure. Whatever. I think that's qualifying as definite edge case. Now Grease is a nice spell, but not at the levels where everyone is flying.

They might want to use those slots on something else. Conservation of resources, man.

I'm not saying something else can't do what silent image can do and then some, but why use a nuke when a bullet will work instead? The dragon might want something else in a higher level slot.

Dragons have Sorc casting, which means a lot of slots. Don't think they're in much danger of running out, even when doing things like spamming Arcane Strike. Also, Action Economy. If you're going to try and fool someone, you'll want to make sure it works. Silent Image is foiled by more things than the higher level images.

And something tells me Grease will not help with... that...

[Lycanthromancer]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

And it might want to take the golem out for some reason? What if it's defending its home (or something in its home)? What if it's defending a town it likes? What if the dragon hates undead (and dead things in general) and it sees one of those corpse collosi?

Dragons are (on average) more intelligent than people. They might have a slightly alien worldview from our perspective, but that doesn't mean they don't have motivation.

So, a random golem just walks in? Yeah, sure. Whatever. I think that's qualifying as definite edge case. Now Grease is a nice spell, but not at the levels where everyone is flying.

It's as random as the situation calls for. It might be that a necromancer is getting pissy elsewhere, and a berserk golem is the result.

I'm just thinking what would happen if it actually happened for whatever reason. A 1st level spell with ~50% chance of taking down an epic monster for a round? I'd hit that.

They might want to use those slots on something else. Conservation of resources, man.

I'm not saying something else can't do what silent image can do and then some, but why use a nuke when a bullet will work instead? The dragon might want something else in a higher level slot.

Dragons have Sorc casting, which means a lot of slots. Don't think they're in much danger of running out, even when doing things like spamming Arcane Strike. Also, Action Economy. If you're going to try and fool someone, you'll want to make sure it works. Silent Image is foiled by more things than the higher level images.

And maybe it's got a thing for efficiency. A 1st level slot for a prone opponent at epic levels is pretty awesome, I think.

And something tells me Grease will not help with... that...

Oh ye of little experimentation.

Open your mind.

Just...not so open that it falls out.

[lans]

I don't think failure =dead in most scenarios.
Look at failing a save, the lowest SoD is level 4 and it gives two saves. I don't know what the next one is.

So say your 3rd level and you fail a save. Your not dead, and as a member of a party you have 3 or 4 other members to bail you out.

edit I may have posted this in the wrong thread, this one and "Underpowered Mundanes or Overpowered Magic - Which is worse?" seem to be overlapping

[Littha]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

I always wondered how you got half dragon gnomes.

[Lycanthromancer]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

I always wondered how you got half dragon gnomes.

Have you seen gnomish sex-toys? Those suckers are scary.

[Bozwevial]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

I always wondered how you got half dragon gnomes.

I assumed that was their alternate form ability.

[Littha]

So the dragon expects to fight epic golems? Well if so, it flies, and they don't. So uh, it completely bypasses the encounter?

If I can just fly over I would totally cast grease on any epic monster I thought it would work on. It's just funny to watch epic golems fall over because of a first level spell. If I'm a dragon, I'm pretty sure my whole job is to fuck with people anyway.

Too bad golems aren't intelligent, it takes a lot of the fun out of pranking them. For an intelligent monster I'd drop a note "That was a first level spell you just faceplanted against. Also I scribed explosive runes on this note."

Not to mention that grease potentially has...err...utility uses. I mean, it's a 100 square feet. Dragons grow up to Colossal+ size, and all their bits are sized accordingly. You do the math.

I always wondered how you got half dragon gnomes.

I assumed that was their alternate form ability.

only a couple of dragons have alternate form...

Bronze, Gold and Silver from the monster manual...

[Shadowhunter]

Enlarge Person on the female?
Enlarge Person on the male?

[Lycanthromancer]

Wouldn't that be engorge person on the male?

[Littha]

Colossal dragon vs medium gnome?

[Shiki]

Small..?

[Littha]

Small..?

Enlarge person... I was trying to demonstrate how little that would help.

[Shiki]

Small..?

Enlarge person... I was trying to demonstrate how little that would help.

Oh, I missed that.

[Sunic_Flames]

Stuff.

Ok, can we get past the stupidity with Tarrasque style fail and accept that the fucking dragons are not Dominate bait due to immunity already?

I don't think failure =dead in most scenarios.
Look at failing a save, the lowest SoD is level 4 and it gives two saves. I don't know what the next one is.

So say your 3rd level and you fail a save. Your not dead, and as a member of a party you have 3 or 4 other members to bail you out.

edit I may have posted this in the wrong thread, this one and "Underpowered Mundanes or Overpowered Magic - Which is worse?" seem to be overlapping

Consider why such spells are referred to as win spell = win. Consider why the PCs can treat it as such. Consider that any decent encounter can do the same damn thing.

[lans]

Stuff.

Ok, can we get past the stupidity with Tarrasque style fail and accept that the fucking dragons are not Dominate bait due to immunity already?

I don't think failure =dead in most scenarios.
Look at failing a save, the lowest SoD is level 4 and it gives two saves. I don't know what the next one is.

So say your 3rd level and you fail a save. Your not dead, and as a member of a party you have 3 or 4 other members to bail you out.

edit I may have posted this in the wrong thread, this one and "Underpowered Mundanes or Overpowered Magic - Which is worse?" seem to be overlapping

Consider why such spells are referred to as win spell = win. Consider why the PCs can treat it as such. Consider that any decent encounter can do the same damn thing.

Because the enemy was by itself with out a person to cover there ass or take out the monster when it got incapacitated?

As opposed to a party that can protect the person  or remove the blindness condition?

[Sunic_Flames]

I said decent encounter. That means not solo enemies you beat down via 4-6 actions to 1.

Also, most characters in D&D cannot protect anyone, even themselves. Fewer still can protect others.