Author Topic: CrystalKeep has been deleted  (Read 49004 times)

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dither

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2010, 05:57:05 PM »
4e is a fine game.  It is not, however, the same type of game as 3.5.  For those of us who really liked the type of game 3.5 was, 4e just doesn't cut the mustard.  Yes, I tried playing it.  I was bored.  So was the rest of my gaming group.  I know there are people who love it... good for them.

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Dilvish

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2010, 06:03:10 PM »
It shows just how much faith they have in the "upgrade" that 4E is supposed to be.

Y'know, Fourth Edition really isn't all that bad.

I know, I'm long past my first knee-jerk reaction to 4E and I wasn't complaining about it. I just don't like Wizards fanning the embers of the edition war and I think they have already more than enough contributed to it.

dither

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2010, 06:45:31 PM »
I know, I'm long past my first knee-jerk reaction to 4E and I wasn't complaining about it. I just don't like Wizards fanning the embers of the edition war and I think they have already more than enough contributed to it.

I'm ambivalent about whether or not unsupported games should go directly to free/public domain as soon as they're no longer supported by the publisher. Should a book be free as soon as the writer stops writing it? Should a movie be free when the actors and the directors stop acting and directing? Should a song become free after it's sold a certain amount? Wizards of the Coast can shut down anyone they can prove is infringing on their shit.

I know I'm sad that CrystalKeep is gone and I'm not going to harp on Wizards for protecting their shit (if that's indeed what happened).
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[spoiler]
Quote from: Shadowhunter
Quote from: Flay Crimsonwind
"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
Well blow me down! :P
A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
[/spoiler]

InnaBinder

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2010, 06:53:09 PM »
I know, I'm long past my first knee-jerk reaction to 4E and I wasn't complaining about it. I just don't like Wizards fanning the embers of the edition war and I think they have already more than enough contributed to it.

I'm ambivalent about whether or not unsupported games should go directly to free/public domain as soon as they're no longer supported by the publisher. Should a book be free as soon as the writer stops writing it? Should a movie be free when the actors and the directors stop acting and directing? Should a song become free after it's sold a certain amount? Wizards of the Coast can shut down anyone they can prove is infringing on their shit.
1) I'm not trying to start a debate here.
2) Your phrasing seems far from ambivalent from where I sit.
3) The analogy would be more apt if your question was "should a book be free as soon as the publishers stop distributing it" rather than "as soon as the writer stops writing it", which reads as an exaggerated point to try to sway the audience.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2010, 06:56:49 PM »
3) The analogy would be more apt if your question was "should a book be free as soon as the publishers stop distributing it" rather than "as soon as the writer stops writing it", which reads as an exaggerated point to try to sway the audience.
That's not even an analogy. That's a description of the exact situation. Regardless of what we think, the law clearly says "No." As long as they maintain the copyright, it is illegal for anyone else to copy and distribute it, even if they aren't anymore.

Crystalkeep was kind of on the edge as to whether it was copyright infringement or "fair use", since they didn't reproduce large sections of any books. I'd guess that's why it was around as long as it was. Whether it was finally taken down due to a Cease and Desist, or because the person hosting it got bored is anyone's guess.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

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...thanks
[/spoiler]

InnaBinder

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2010, 06:58:18 PM »
3) The analogy would be more apt if your question was "should a book be free as soon as the publishers stop distributing it" rather than "as soon as the writer stops writing it", which reads as an exaggerated point to try to sway the audience.
That's not even an analogy. That's a description of the exact situation. Regardless of what we think, the law clearly says "No." As long as they maintain the copyright, it is illegal for anyone else to copy and distribute it, even if they aren't anymore.

Crystalkeep was kind of on the edge as to whether it was copyright infringement or "fair use", since they didn't reproduce large sections of any books.
Nonetheless, the original 'analogy' was fairly clearly an exaggeration for effect.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2010, 07:00:22 PM »
Fucking WotC. Damn them and every gaming decision they've made in the last three years:fu :shakefist :banghead

Have you given Fourth Edition a chance? I mean, really tried to play the game? Rather than just hate on it?

It shows just how much faith they have in the "upgrade" that 4E is supposed to be.

Y'know, Fourth Edition really isn't all that bad.

4E was designed for a computer, not pen and paper. I have played it and was sorely disappointed by what they've done.

It doesn't help that Essentials killed any interest I have ("Oh, you didn't have to buy your PH1 if you could figure out the basics").


[spoiler][/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2010, 07:02:35 PM »
Dang ... that's where I went for some ideas ... (sigh)


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4e has that little "Dungeons & Dragons" thingy on it.
By that fact alone, I had high hopes for it.
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geniussavant

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 07:04:06 PM »
There has to be a medium between WotC maintaining property rights, and us having access to things like crystalkeep's indexes. I just wish we could come up with one, present it to WotC and have them accept it.
[spoiler]
I see that you want to solve problems. Not problems like, "What is beauty?," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of 'philosophy'. You want to solve practical problems. F'r instance, how are you gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing you a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer: Use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.
And if that fails try this


 
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 07:08:05 PM »
There has to be a medium between WotC maintaining property rights, and us having access to things like crystalkeep's indexes. I just wish we could come up with one, present it to WotC and have them accept it.
Why would they concede one inch? If we're using 3.X material over 4.X, we're not providing them with any revenue. The old product is a direct competitor with the new one, just like with White Wolf's oWoD vs. nWoD, from what I hear at least (I hardly played the old one, and never played the new one). The new WoD was hated so much that the company is actually going back and ressurecting the old one, it sounds like. I doubt WotC will ever do that, so it is actually in their best interest to do everything they can to kill 3.X edition entirely.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2010, 07:11:15 PM »
But the C.O.-board wasn't chiseling their profit margin ...

"we" were functioning as underground advertising.

Edit --- it's still their stuff. We're pimping (!) it for them.

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2010, 07:15:58 PM »
It shows just how much faith they have in the "upgrade" that 4E is supposed to be.

Y'know, Fourth Edition really isn't all that bad.

I know, I'm long past my first knee-jerk reaction to 4E and I wasn't complaining about it. I just don't like Wizards fanning the embers of the edition war and I think they have already more than enough contributed to it.

AFAIK they're also killing off SWSE, which is a damn good system.  If there weren't so many fans of the "swords and sorcery" routine, I'm sure it'd be a lot more popular than it is.

I know, I'm long past my first knee-jerk reaction to 4E and I wasn't complaining about it. I just don't like Wizards fanning the embers of the edition war and I think they have already more than enough contributed to it.

I'm ambivalent about whether or not unsupported games should go directly to free/public domain as soon as they're no longer supported by the publisher. Should a book be free as soon as the writer stops writing it? Should a movie be free when the actors and the directors stop acting and directing? Should a song become free after it's sold a certain amount? Wizards of the Coast can shut down anyone they can prove is infringing on their shit.

I know I'm sad that CrystalKeep is gone and I'm not going to harp on Wizards for protecting their shit (if that's indeed what happened).
If the publishers don't support a game that still has a large fanbase, then I don't see what's wrong with someone else doing so.

raith0

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2010, 07:32:55 PM »
Originaly i thought that CK had the SRD Indexes that you could have, i learned better after reading them.  That may be the root of the problem.  I dont think we will ever know for a fact.

I tried 4ed i really did and it had some great things about it.  Coming up with encounters on the fly worked well.  Actually i enjoyed running 4th ed a lot more than i realized after i started running 3.x again.  I think my biggest problem was when making a character i felt very Pigeon holed as to what i could do.  Every system has its flaws and the Flaws of 4th ed were more unapealing to me than those of 3.x.    I will still hope that as I continue to work out my own system that one day I will some how luck into the chance of helping with 5th editions direction and mechanics. 

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2010, 07:34:28 PM »
We're pimping (!) it for them.
I feel so dirty now.

I knew CC would be next. I dl'd the whole thing the first time I saw it (too good to be true, really)

Next they'll start attacking people like my who index things.

After that will be the builds...
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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Bozwevial

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2010, 07:39:32 PM »
After that will be the builds...
Why would this be the case?

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2010, 07:44:35 PM »
After that will be the builds...
Why would this be the case?

What better way to deter new players for the old system than by deleting our readily-accessed builds and guides?

Though they really can't do that legally. The builds may use the rules in the books, but they do not reprint the rules outright.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2010, 07:45:45 PM »
After that will be the builds...
Why would this be the case?

What better way to deter new players for the old system than by deleting our readily-accessed builds and guides?

Though they really can't do that legally. The builds may use the rules in the books, but they do not reprint the rules outright.
Exactly. If that were illegal, they would have killed them off back when they made the jump to 4e.

wotmaniac

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2010, 07:55:43 PM »
If the publishers don't support a game that still has a large fanbase, then I don't see what's wrong with someone else doing so.

I think that PXY already covered this:
If we're using 3.X material over 4.X, we're not providing them with any revenue. The old product is a direct competitor with the new one,

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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The_Laughing_Man

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2010, 08:14:19 PM »
http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179800

Apparently Wizards are trying to make sure everyone "upgrades".

I feel sad. A haiku will help.

Farewell Crystal Keep
My greatest find: plus four dex
race of goblin, air

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Re: CrystalKeep has been deleted
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2010, 08:40:54 PM »
After that will be the builds...
Why would this be the case?

What better way to deter new players for the old system than by deleting our readily-accessed builds and guides?

Though they really can't do that legally. The builds may use the rules in the books, but they do not reprint the rules outright.
Exactly. If that were illegal, they would have killed them off back when they made the jump to 4e.
Well, there was that whole incident with Lorraine Williams...

Quote
At the heyday of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition in the 1990s, TSR had Lorraine Williams as their CEO, who made no secret her disdain both for gamers and the people that worked under her. Among many things that caused Dungeons & Dragons and TSR to be run into the ground before being mercifully bought out by Wizards Of The Coast were:
Suing people left and right, including people who ran message boards for talking about Dungeons & Dragons on the internet on the basis that it was their intellectual property. This prevented new people from discovering the game through internet word-of-mouth, gave their competitors who were using the new medium to promote their products an edge, and disenchanted fans.
Lorraine Williams devoted a great deal of company resources to publishing and promoting the Buck Rogers RPG, as the heiress whose estate owned the rights to the Buck Rogers IP got royalties for every Buck Rogers supplement published and sold. That heiress? Lorraine Williams.
TSR's solution to declining sales was to publish new settings. The problem was that the settings, modules, and rules that governed them were so incompatible with each other that the player base became fragmented. For instance, a Planescape fan would have no use for modules meant for the Birthright setting.
Licensing terrible games, with Baldur's Gate being a notable exception and becoming the string holding the franchise together. It probably could have gotten more people into the hobby if message boards about the game didn't have to censor comments about the tabletop version for fear of lawsuits.
Nepotism ran rampant in the company, which resulted in unqualified managers.
Game designers were often forbidden by Williams to use company time to play test products, on the reasoning that playtesting was just an excuse for the peasants to get paid to play games.


[spoiler][/spoiler]