What does it take to be effective in melee?

[Sunic_Flames]

Isn't Shadow Jaunt a second level maneuver, requiring IL 3? So, no, it doesn't work at L1, but available to carn's build at L5, or 3 if you shuffled the war blade up front. Would push shadow blade back, unless you instead chose a 1st level shadow hand maneuver with martial study/stance (which you could easily retrain later once you qualified for a higher level one).

Not a build breaking issue.

Warblades get Shadow Hand?

[carnivore]

yes... if they take the feat: Martial Study, it does not say you need to have them, since the feat can be taken by non-initiators, if an initiator takes the feat, the manuver gained cannot be exchanged like a regular manuver they learn



as for adjusting the numbers .... i corrected an error that i noticed right after i posted it(i hastily rebuilt the character and didnt finish checking everything, since i had to go(work related) at the time)

my appologies about the "Martial Study(Shadow Blink,SH7)".... i was adjusting a previous build and had taken it a higher level, and did not correct the Manuver when i moved the feat ..... i was not ignoring the rules, just didnt check the manuver like i should have ... will adjust the post to reflect the correct manuver

of course as BruceLeeroy pointed out i could leave it as it is and simply add that it had been retrained out later(or pay for Psychic Reformation and change it that way as well) .... but i dont like to use those options(even though they are allowed), i prefer to adjust and play it as it stands

 

[carnivore]

i just rechecked ..... the feat only says you must meet the "Prerequisites" .... Shadow Blink has no Prequisites .... so it can be taken as i originally posted.... the build stands as i posted it

 

[Senevri]

It does say "Swordsage 7". At WB 1, your swordsage IL is 0.5, and you need Swordsage IL 13 to pick a Swordsage 7 maneuver. Still, you can make a ( insane ) argument for it, I guess.

[carnivore]

check page 44 ToB, under the Paragraph "Level".... that says that "Swordsage 7" only refers to what Initiator Class has access to the Manuver, except that it also says in the same Paragraph: "You can learn any Manuver you like by choosing the feat Martial Study, regardless of class."

then the next Paragraph on the same page ..... "Prerequisite" ... explains what that means as well .....

the rules allow it .... just look then up

 

[veekie]

The issue still remains with AMF and you know...Su manuevers.

[Waazraath]

The issue still remains with AMF and you know...Su manuevers.

Isn't that an ex manouver?

[Lycanthromancer]

The issue still remains with AMF and you know...Su manuevers.

Isn't that an ex manouver?

No. There's nothing in ToB that's called a 'manouver'.

[dark_samuari]

The issue still remains with AMF and you know...Su manuevers.

Isn't that an ex manouver?

No. There's nothing in ToB that's called a 'manouver'.

Red rover, red rover, send Waazraath manouver!

[carnivore]

 

 

[Lycanthromancer]

Manouverboard!

[carnivore]

The issue still remains with AMF and you know...Su manuevers.

what issue?

 

[carnivore]

Manouverboard!

 

 

[Senevri]

That's one of the words I have trouble with. The correct spelling is maneuver, but I do spell manoveur or maneuvre from time to time.
@Wazraath, I believe all of the shadow x teleports are Supernatural. I could see a fluff for an extraordinary teleport, that requires the ability to physically move to the target location - no getting out of stone spheres, but really really fast movement instead.

[carnivore]

correct ... all of the Shadowhand x Teleport manuvers are Supernatural since they have the Teleportation Descriptor... thus are affected by Antimagic fields a a Supernatural ability ... see ToB,page 40 under "Martial Powers and Magic"

however, Shadow Blink only requires Line of Sight and Line of Effect, .... not the actual ability to move to the target location .... thus Shadow Blink will allow you to Teleport 50' straight up if you want



 

[Bloody Initiate]

I could see a fluff for an extraordinary teleport, that requires the ability to physically move to the target location - no getting out of stone spheres, but really really fast movement instead.

Although the Devotion feats are Spell-like, I think the mechanics of Travel Devotion could easily have been the extraordinary teleport of which you speak. Moving your speed as a swift action is awesome, but doesn't have to be magical. Without the per day and turn attempt aspects it would've fit into ToB easily (Assuming you'd give it a per encounter limitation or something similar).

Of course, that's not how the designers saw the mechanic when they first thought of it, so it's not the case. It's a pretty easy homebrew though.

[carnivore]

Shadow Blink is better, it is a Swift Action, and since i took it when i was a Warblade, i can use the Warblade Recovery(Swift action) to get it back ..... thus i can use it every other round if needed

 

[Bloody Initiate]

Shadow Blink is better, it is a Swift Action, and since i took it when i was a Warblade, i can use the Warblade Recovery(Swift action) to get it back ..... thus i can use it every other round if needed

 

Yes it is, but I was talking about how easily Travel Devotion could have been extraordinary instead of Spell-like, allowing it to work in AMFs. Shadow Blink can be suppressed by AMFs. Travel Devotion doesn't create a teleportation-like effect, it just lets you move REALLY fast.

I suppose I wasn't adding much to the conversation, but I like writing down things I think of in public places before I forget them..

[Waazraath]

That's one of the words I have trouble with. The correct spelling is maneuver, but I do spell manoveur or maneuvre from time to time.
@Wazraath, I believe all of the shadow x teleports are Supernatural. I could see a fluff for an extraordinary teleport, that requires the ability to physically move to the target location - no getting out of stone spheres, but really really fast movement instead.

p40, ToB: unless the description of the specific maneuver or stance says otherwise, treat it as an extraordinary ability. Thus, these abilities work just fine in an antimagic field...." All manouvers that are supernatural have that listed at the end of their description, shadow blink, stride and jaunt don't have it. So what would make them supernatural?

[carnivore]

the Descriptor in the Name of the Entry .....exa:

Shadow Blink[Teleportation]

look at ToB,page 44 ... under "Descriptor" .... is says that the Descriptors determine how the manuver interacts with Powers and Spells

if a Spell or Power will block a Teleportation Effect ..... it will block a Manuver with the Teleportation Descriptor as well