Author Topic: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood  (Read 21372 times)

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Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2008, 10:37:50 PM »
Can I reflavor the Ordained Champion and Ruby Knight Vindicator to fit one of the Eberron gods? I was thinking Dol Dorn. Probably something like Cleric4/Ordained Champion5/Crusader1/RKV10, or along those lines.

I could see the Ordained Champion working for Dol Dorn or any of the other martial gods in Eberron.  For the Ruby Knight Vindicator, I would be ok with it working for a secretive group inside the Silver Flame or a smallish cult devoted to Dol Dorn that is also favorably disposed towards The Mockery for the stealth and treachery aspect.  On the other hand, I would let you choose domains from both Dol Dorn and The Mockery (you would have to pick at least one from Dol Dorn).  Sound reasonable?  I'm open to it being available to Dol Dorn as well, though I think it works best with the Silver Flame.

Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2008, 10:41:31 PM »
And he'll be from the Eldeen Regions.

Cool.  Any idea on which druidic sect he is part of?

PhoenixInferno

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2008, 10:48:01 PM »
We're optimizers - there is only one acceptable sect: The Ashbound. :)

Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2008, 10:54:51 PM »
We're optimizers - there is only one acceptable sect: The Ashbound. :)

Could be problematic with the "consider arcane and divine magic to be unnatural" clause, though at least they try to avoid killing.   :)

Pan-Fried Hamster

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2008, 10:59:24 PM »
New to Eberron myself, and I'm gonna go Warforged Artificer for the full experience.  I also like the utility of being able to build my own upgrades.

Naming is going to be fun.  Right now I'm considering "Aiu", "Eyoo," or another variation of "hey, you!"

Still working on build and backstory--I need to look through a few good threads to orient myself.  One thing I don't get, CHA seems overrated for the class in the written description.  It doesn't affect DC, doesn't affect infusions per day, doesn't affect infusions...all it does is give a bonus to UMD.  Am I overlooking something, or is it more of a secondary attribute?

Also unsure of whether or not to take the Mithral/Addy body feats for durability.  A thread-hunting I will go...

Also, if arcane and divine magic are unnatural, what are infusions?  :D

Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2008, 11:09:27 PM »
One thing I don't get, CHA seems overrated for the class in the written description.  It doesn't affect DC, doesn't affect infusions per day, doesn't affect infusions...all it does is give a bonus to UMD.  Am I overlooking something, or is it more of a secondary attribute?

I think it depends on the build - those that utilize UMD heavily for buff spells from wands and such want it while others don't care as much.  I'm sure the others can answer it much better (not being an optimizer myself).

Quote
Also, if arcane and divine magic are unnatural, what are infusions?  :D

Even worse.  Though it makes you wonder - what do they consider their own magic?  Also, I looked at the Ashbound feat - that thing is overpowered.  It should probably be something like "double the duration of summon nature's ally spells" without the attack bonus.  Not sure if I'll change it - I'll see if it comes up.

Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2008, 11:30:48 PM »
Current iteration of Lledrith. Work in progress. He's heading towards the Alchemist Savant class, currently. And yes, he might be better served as an artificer, but there is already one, and no arcane caster.

[spoiler]Lledrith Ddracht
Human Wizard 3

Experience: 3rd level.

Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 7 + 2d4 + 6: 18
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30ft.
Armor Class: 13  Touch: 13  Flat-footed: 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+3
Attack: +3 Club (1d6)
Full Attack: +3 Club (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5ft./5ft.
Saves: Fort 5/Reflex 2/Will 0
Abilities:Str 13, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 10
Skills: Concentration 6, Craft (Alchemy) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (Nature) 2, Knowledge (Nobility) 2, Knowledge (The Planes) 2, Spellcraft 6
Feats: Least Dragonmark (Mark of Making) [Level 1], Legendary Artisan [Human Bonus], Brew Potion [Level 3]
Alignment: LN
Languages Spoken: Common, Elven, Dwarven, Gnome
Level Adjustment: None
 

Possessions:

Spells Known:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:

Spells Memorized:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:

Character background:
None yet.
[/spoiler]
Arhosa Campaign World - Always Recruiting
Past, Present, and Future
Osteomancy - Rune Magic - Astral Magic
Class and Rule Collection
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Smudgy

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2008, 01:04:51 AM »
Here's Van, also a work in progress. I'll finish him when I'm not about to collapse from exhaustion. G'night!

Pan-Fried Hamster

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2008, 01:58:15 AM »
Aiu (Work in Progress)

Juggling feats, got some questions.  I'm looking at Mithral Body or Skill Focus (UMD) for my first-level feat, but was wondering if Nymph's Kiss [BoED] would be allowed.  I'd rename it Focused Talent to fit the character better.

Will crafting +UMD skill items be allowed as per the DMG guidelines on making magic items?  That's a fairly critical point.

Next up, the feat Legendary Artisan reduces base XP cost for crafting by 25%.  How would it play into this specific campaign?  Depending on just how ad hoc XP is, it may or may not be useful.

Finally, can I retroactively use wealth-by-level and craft reserve to assume some of my starting equipment was crafted?

As for other points, I'll be keeping Search/Disable/Open maxed due to my high INT, so I can fill that role for the party where needed.  I'm taking the 1st and 4th level Warforged Racial Substitution levels.

For general background, my character was employed as a manual laborer, then upgraded (Mithral Body perhaps) to handle more delicate tasks.  He's quite proud of his mithril-jointed digits, and his exacting precision hearkens to his mechanical roots.  I'm not sure whether to have him as a former worker for House Cannith, or a smaller employer.  I need to do more reading on the houses and nations to decide where exactly he would fit in.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 02:11:36 AM by Pan-Fried Hamster »

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2008, 05:43:52 AM »
Can i get this allowed?
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Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2008, 08:08:02 AM »
Juggling feats, got some questions.  I'm looking at Mithral Body or Skill Focus (UMD) for my first-level feat, but was wondering if Nymph's Kiss [BoED] would be allowed.  I'd rename it Focused Talent to fit the character better.

I'd rather not allow [Exalted] feats for non-Exalted characters.

Quote
Will crafting +UMD skill items be allowed as per the DMG guidelines on making magic items?  That's a fairly critical point.

Does anyone else have any opinions on this?  I'll think it over - how powerful do you think it would be for your character?  I am leaning towards allowing it.

Quote
Next up, the feat Legendary Artisan reduces base XP cost for crafting by 25%.  How would it play into this specific campaign?  Depending on just how ad hoc XP is, it may or may not be useful.

It should still be useful, as XP will still be awarded.  Think of it as awarding XP for roleplaying and plot advancement instead of just combat.  The benefits of Legendary Artisan would still come into play.  If anything, I am worried about the time it takes to craft items as it relates to the story and the other characters.

Quote
Finally, can I retroactively use wealth-by-level and craft reserve to assume some of my starting equipment was crafted?

That seems reasonable. 

Quote
As for other points, I'll be keeping Search/Disable/Open maxed due to my high INT, so I can fill that role for the party where needed.  I'm taking the 1st and 4th level Warforged Racial Substitution levels.

Sounds good.

Quote
For general background, my character was employed as a manual laborer, then upgraded (Mithral Body perhaps) to handle more delicate tasks.  He's quite proud of his mithril-jointed digits, and his exacting precision hearkens to his mechanical roots.  I'm not sure whether to have him as a former worker for House Cannith, or a smaller employer.  I need to do more reading on the houses and nations to decide where exactly he would fit in.

Also good - do you have an idea of what he did during the Last War?

Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2008, 08:08:58 AM »

skydragonknight

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2008, 11:48:21 AM »
We're optimizers - there is only one acceptable sect: The Ashbound. :)

I've decided to focus on summoning, so absolutely Ashbound. Though if memory serves, they only think Arcane is unnatural, not Divine(after all, they cast divine spells).
So by the tiny gap in semantics, they shouldn't have any beef with Artificers, who are neither Arcane nor Divine, though they might get a little shaky on them using arcane-only spells. Not sure.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 11:50:20 AM by skydragonknight »
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Pan-Fried Hamster

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2008, 01:26:40 PM »
Will crafting +UMD skill items be allowed as per the DMG guidelines on making magic items?  That's a fairly critical point.

Does anyone else have any opinions on this?  I'll think it over - how powerful do you think it would be for your character?  I am leaning towards allowing it.

Without custom items, some of the UMD DCs become difficult to make and it becomes necessary to sink a feat into Skill Focus.  I don't want to go to the extreme of using an item familiar for extra ranks, but I'd like to be able to upgrade my MW skill tool as we advance (which would take the form of an increasingly-complex, stylized ring of glyphs around one eye).

Next up, the feat Legendary Artisan reduces base XP cost for crafting by 25%.  How would it play into this specific campaign?  Depending on just how ad hoc XP is, it may or may not be useful.

It should still be useful, as XP will still be awarded.  Think of it as awarding XP for roleplaying and plot advancement instead of just combat.  The benefits of Legendary Artisan would still come into play.  If anything, I am worried about the time it takes to craft items as it relates to the story and the other characters.

There's a crafting feat, Exceptional Artisan, that lowers crafting time by 25%.  I wasn't planning on taking it until slightly later, but I can bump it up to either my 3rd or 4th level feat if that helps.  I'm gonna be working in some Metamagic too, but that won't come into play until Aiu is faced with combat and decides such things are necessary.

For general background, my character was employed as a manual laborer, then upgraded (Mithral Body perhaps) to handle more delicate tasks.  He's quite proud of his mithril-jointed digits, and his exacting precision hearkens to his mechanical roots.  I'm not sure whether to have him as a former worker for House Cannith, or a smaller employer.  I need to do more reading on the houses and nations to decide where exactly he would fit in.

Also good - do you have an idea of what he did during the Last War?

Right now I'm more focused on the work he did in Sharn immediately after the Last War, I'll PM you the details as I continue to work out his backstory.

Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2008, 02:20:13 PM »
I've decided to focus on summoning, so absolutely Ashbound. Though if memory serves, they only think Arcane is unnatural, not Divine(after all, they cast divine spells).
So by the tiny gap in semantics, they shouldn't have any beef with Artificers, who are neither Arcane nor Divine, though they might get a little shaky on them using arcane-only spells. Not sure.

I have a couple of issues with the Ashbound, though I am sure that they can be resolved.  Mechanically, I think that the feat is awfully strong compared to the other feats available.  I am open to people argueing in favor of it, but I think it should be changed slightly - would it be acceptable to have it just double the duration of the summons?  Other people can chime in as well.

The other problems are related to how your character will fit in with the other characters given their distrust of the unnatural arts of arcane and divine magic.  What motivation would it take to get your character to join such a group?  I just don't want personal issues in the group to be too hard to overcome, though I am sure that this can be worked around with the correct backstory and motivation.

Also (and not really related), I am quite sure that the text mentioned divine magic as well as arcane as things that they find unnatural.  I would imagine that this would relate to non-druidic divine magic, since they would view it as power from an unnatural source - the (imaginary) gods or (possibly) the caster himself.  And I think it is reasonable to say that they would have problems with Artificers for crafting divine or arcane magics, even if they used druidic spells instead of clerical.  In fact, they might have more problems with Artificers using druidic magics. 

But that is all tangential at this point - just be thinking about how your character views this issues and what they believe is unnatural, and how they might fit into the group.

Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2008, 02:31:45 PM »
Without custom items, some of the UMD DCs become difficult to make and it becomes necessary to sink a feat into Skill Focus.  I don't want to go to the extreme of using an item familiar for extra ranks, but I'd like to be able to upgrade my MW skill tool as we advance (which would take the form of an increasingly-complex, stylized ring of glyphs around one eye).

Ok, the custom item for UMD will be fine.

Quote
There's a crafting feat, Exceptional Artisan, that lowers crafting time by 25%.  I wasn't planning on taking it until slightly later, but I can bump it up to either my 3rd or 4th level feat if that helps.  I'm gonna be working in some Metamagic too, but that won't come into play until Aiu is faced with combat and decides such things are necessary.

One of my concerns with crafting time is how it will fit in with events in the campaign (which are still up in the air) - I don't want to ruin characters by saying "we don't have time to do the one thing you built your character to do".  There should be some time for crafting.  The other concern I have is what everyone else will do while you are crafting - I could just do very generalized downtime sometimes, I suppose.

Quote
Right now I'm more focused on the work he did in Sharn immediately after the Last War, I'll PM you the details as I continue to work out his backstory.

So he's in Sharn, eh?  Interesting.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2008, 03:54:15 PM »
I propose this house rule for crafting +skill items: You can't craft an item that gives a competence bonus higher than your ranks in the skill. That way if you want to make a +10 UMD item, you should have 10 ranks in UMD.

I agree on ashbound. It's quite powerful. I'd like to get it, but to be honest, the sect's view on magic is too fanatic. I'd agree to tone it down if you waived some of the sect's viewpoint.

Another note - are anthropomorphic races allowed? I don't know what i'll get in the end, but just checking.
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Schala_Zeal

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2008, 05:15:17 PM »
I propose this house rule for crafting +skill items: You can't craft an item that gives a competence bonus higher than your ranks in the skill. That way if you want to make a +10 UMD item, you should have 10 ranks in UMD.

Agreed.  I suppose this means I need to start collecting a list of house rules.  :(

Quote
I agree on ashbound. It's quite powerful. I'd like to get it, but to be honest, the sect's view on magic is too fanatic. I'd agree to tone it down if you waived some of the sect's viewpoint.

I would be fine with having more lenient views in the Ashbound - enough so that it wouldn't cause issues with working with the others.  There would still be some fanatical Ashbound groups, and people may still associate the group with the extreme elements, but it would be doable.  How would you suggest the feat work?

Quote
Another note - are anthropomorphic races allowed? I don't know what i'll get in the end, but just checking.

Anthropomorphic races would probably be allowed - I'd want a heads up, but as long as it isn't too odd or overpowered, I won't have a problem.  Catfolk would be allowed, for example (though I would prefer to not deal with LA).

Pan-Fried Hamster

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2008, 05:35:31 PM »
Regarding crafting and reducing the time it takes, I submit the following example:

I have my sights set on a Circlet of Persuasion to aid in my crafting (+3 to CHA based checks) as my first crafted Wondrous Item.  Here's how it breaks down from what I can tell.  Info is from d20SRD.org

[spoiler]
Craft Wondrous Item [Item Creation] (Gained at Artificer 3)Circlet of Persuasion
Price 4,500 gp.

Crafting Requirements
Gold: 4500 - 25% (Extraordinary Artisan) = 3375 gp.  Cut in half for raw materials, 1688 gp.
EXP: 1/25th, so 4 EXP per 100 GP of base price.  45*4 = 180 EXP.
Time: At 1 day per 1k gp using the base price of 4500, 5 days if assuming part of a day requires a full day.
CL: Artificers are treated as having level+2 for crafting CL (though they use straight level for CL-dependent effects such as damage).  3+2 = 5.
UMD: is 2nd level, or CL 3.  DC is 20 + CL, so I have to make a UMD result of 23.  I have one attempt per day, plus a last-ditch effort:


[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Since you're worried about time, there are a few ways to trim it:

1) Exceptional Artisan reduces base time by 25%.
2) Because Extraordinary Artisan reduces base cost by 25%, you could base crafting time off the new cost.  This does go against the RAW for the feat, though.
3) Round down.


This is how I would do it if you *want* to reduce time taken:

4500 GP becomes 3375 GP (Extraordinary Artisan)
3375 is rounded up to 4 days of crafting
Exceptional Artisan subtracts 25% of that.  3 days.
-or-
3375 is rounded down to 3 days of crafting
Exceptional Artisan has no effect since it's less than 4 days.  3 days. (I prefer the former)


The difference increases as you increase value.  For a 40k GP item:
40k GP becomes 30k GP
30 days of crafting -25% is 23 days (rounding up).
...using the base price it would be 40 days -25%, for 30 days total.  7 days difference.


All in all, this takes 25% off twice when using Exceptional Artisan, reducing the time to 56% of the base instead of 75%.  That's pretty hefty, and also makes Extraordinary Artisan much more powerful since the benefits are doubled.  On the flipside, you're dealing in reduced time rather than gp or exp.  Depending on the campaign, a few days can be a really big deal, or a minor one.

Lastly, each day less also means I get fewer chances to make my UMD check, which is at +11 in the case of this item (6 ranks, 1 Charisma, 2 MW skill tool, 2 Artisan Bonus class feature).  I have to roll 12 or better.

I'd like to know how the rest of the party feels about this, too.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 05:39:15 PM by Pan-Fried Hamster »

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Eberron - Tides of Blood
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2008, 06:45:39 PM »
I meant anthropomorhic animals from savage species. Especially anthropomorphic bat. Small size, blindsight 20ft stats that include +6 wis -4 cha and fly 20ft speed. I think you'll find it overpowered, i better get something else :/
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