Author Topic: Sundry Discussions  (Read 42554 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shadowhunter

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #260 on: December 28, 2010, 12:41:44 AM »
Wow, you weren't kidding when you said I should be glad it's not a full-powered one. That would have knocked me out with it's first attack even without the grapple.
Actually, that creature is really interesting, coming from a DM's perspective. Good attack, good immunities, good abilities, very deadly if not handled properly but manageable if it is (as it should).
For the record, I'm not handling it the way it's supposed to be done. :p

Well, this will prove... interesting :sofa (same situation)
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #261 on: December 28, 2010, 12:49:31 AM »
Yes. 1d6+7 kinda hurts when you only have 10 hp...

Let's segue to the Encounters thread.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 12:51:04 AM by AndyJames »

Shadowhunter

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #262 on: December 28, 2010, 01:21:36 AM »
Now, I'm not good with the grappling rules (who are?) but if I understand it correctly, the vine grapples me during the suprise round.

Quote
Step 3: Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action. If
you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal
damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.
If you lose, you fail to start the grapple. You automatically lose an
attempt to hold if the target is two or more size categories larger
than you are.
In case of a tie, the combatant with the higher grapple check
modifier wins. If this is a tie, roll again to break the tie.

Step 4: Maintain Grapple.

Does this mean that since the vine hasn't got the time to act before me and haven't managed to move into my space, it can't maintain it's grapple?
That doesn't seem right. Does it?
Of course, I'm not complaining, but it doesn't seem right.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #263 on: December 28, 2010, 01:55:23 AM »
For normal creatures, yes, but I'd rule that if the guy is bigger and stronger than you, you go to his square. For creatures with tendrils and the like, I'd rule they drag you to THEIR squares. Take a look at the Roper, for example. It drags people to its square, not the other way around, and it definitely maintains grapple. Whoever that wrote that "move to target's square" thing was on drugs.

Epimetheus

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #264 on: December 29, 2010, 12:12:57 AM »
I'm not too good with the logic behind grapple rules, but if some of us grappled Shimala/vine, then would the vine have a more difficult time dragging us all off? The vine's going to carry her off into the air when its turn comes, so we have to hurry.

I've thought of a pretty good way to buy us some time, but we'll see if someone else thinks of it first. Talking might be a free action, but Claude probably wouldn't have this idea without some metagaming. Too bad.  :pout

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #265 on: December 29, 2010, 12:43:51 AM »
I'm not too good with the logic behind grapple rules, but if some of us grappled Shimala/vine, then would the vine have a more difficult time dragging us all off? The vine's going to carry her off into the air when its turn comes, so we have to hurry.

I've thought of a pretty good way to buy us some time, but we'll see if someone else thinks of it first. Talking might be a free action, but Claude probably wouldn't have this idea without some metagaming. Too bad.  :pout
Kim was already planning on grabbing onto her, if for no other reason than to keep being able to attack it until it lets go.

Also don't bother looking for logic in the grapple rules. They are so convoluted and stupid that they don't even resemble anything close to reality (as was their likely intention)
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #266 on: December 29, 2010, 01:22:56 AM »
I have to second that. Looking for logic behind the grapple rules is setting yourself up for failure :D

If Kim joins the grapple, the the vine will have to defeat BOTH ladies' grapple checks to continue reeling Shimala both of them in.

Double the chow. NICE :)

Epimetheus

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #267 on: December 29, 2010, 02:21:14 AM »
Oh okay..., you can think of it as more food. It might very well end up being that way.

But I'm hearing the vine snapping under our combined weight. At the very least, having more people join the grapple should make the vine/people combo too heavy to lift off the ground.

Too bad DnD doesn't really have a mechanic for what happens when you try to carry too much.

---

For anyone thinking of jumping onto this grapple (it's 5' off the ground now), you should know that it is possible to Take 10 on jumps. However, with your 'vertical reach', you should be able to grab on easily.

For those thinking of shooting the vine, you might want to aim at where the vine comes from, instead of the part wrapped around Shimala. If you don't you have a good chance of hitting someone in the 'mob of grappling PCs other frozen red meat (1000 gp)', which would be sad. Otherwise, it might be better to switch to a melee weapon.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 03:20:47 AM by Epimetheus »

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #268 on: December 29, 2010, 02:37:55 AM »
Oh okay..., you can think of it as more food. It might very well end up being that way.

But I'm hearing the vine snapping under our combined weight. At the very least, having more people join the grapple should make the vine/people combo too heavy to lift off the ground.

Too bad DnD doesn't really have a mechanic for what happens when you try to carry too much.

---

For anyone thinking of jumping onto this grapple (it's 5' off the ground now), you should know that it is possible to Take 10 on jumps. With your 'vertical reach', you should be able to grab on easily.

For those thinking of shooting the vine, you might want to aim at where the vine comes from, instead of the part wrapped around Shimala. If you don't you have a good chance of hitting someone in the 'mob of grappling PCs other frozen red meat (1000 gp)', which would be sad. Otherwise, it might be better to switch to a melee weapon.
Can't take 10 when stressed or in a rushed situation. Combat qualifies.

Epimetheus

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #269 on: December 29, 2010, 03:19:37 AM »
Oh okay..., you can think of it as more food. It might very well end up being that way.

But I'm hearing the vine snapping under our combined weight. At the very least, having more people join the grapple should make the vine/people combo too heavy to lift off the ground.

Too bad DnD doesn't really have a mechanic for what happens when you try to carry too much.

---

For anyone thinking of jumping onto this grapple (it's 5' off the ground now), you should know that it is possible to Take 10 on jumps. With your 'vertical reach', you should be able to grab on easily.

For those thinking of shooting the vine, you might want to aim at where the vine comes from, instead of the part wrapped around Shimala. If you don't you have a good chance of hitting someone in the 'mob of grappling PCs other frozen red meat (1000 gp)', which would be sad. Otherwise, it might be better to switch to a melee weapon.
Can't take 10 when stressed or in a rushed situation. Combat qualifies.

That's true. Except for Tosc, who's apparently not at all stressed about the situation. :P

Luckily, Shimala seems to be low enough that we don't need to jump for this round.

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #270 on: December 29, 2010, 03:40:29 AM »
She is 5ft off the ground. The next 5ft or so would have her in it. If you want to attack the vine above her, you'd have to jump 5ft. Unless you think you can give her a shave without nicking her skin... ;)

Epimetheus

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #271 on: December 29, 2010, 04:26:55 AM »
(Actually, I was more thinking in terms of how we might join in on the grapple.)

Potential awkward moment:
[spoiler]In order to join the grapple, it is easier for Kim (and anyone else) to grapple Shimala instead of the vines. Yes. (You can stop :love now.)

I point this out because the (crazy grapple) rules say she would need to either outgrapple the vines or outgrapple Shimala to join the grapple. Since the vines are great at grappling, it's easier to outgrapple Shimala, since she can (probably?) let Kim win the opposed grapple check.

If enough people grab on, then we let gravity do its work. After all, the vine probably has a carrying capacity weight limit before it begins to snap... Worst comes to worse, we'd all be dragged off together. But we'd be able to smash the thing repeatedly, as it carries us off.
[/spoiler]

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #272 on: December 29, 2010, 04:45:16 AM »
(Actually, I was more thinking in terms of how we might join in on the grapple.)

Potential awkward moment:
[spoiler]In order to join the grapple, it is easier for Kim (and anyone else) to grapple Shimala instead of the vines. Yes. (You can stop :love now.)

I point this out because the (crazy grapple) rules say she would need to either outgrapple the vines or outgrapple Shimala to join the grapple. Since the vines are great at grappling, it's easier to outgrapple Shimala, since she can (probably?) let Kim win the opposed grapple check.

If enough people grab on, then we let gravity do its work. After all, the vine probably has a carrying capacity weight limit before it begins to snap... Worst comes to worse, we'd all be dragged off together. But we'd be able to smash the thing repeatedly, as it carries us off.
[/spoiler]
To damage someone in a grapple, you have to either win a grapple check or attack with a -4 penalty with a light weapon already in hand. Just a thought before you all go dogpile the poor cleric.

McPoyo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3783
    • Email
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #273 on: December 29, 2010, 10:34:55 AM »
We'd be butt to face at this point as well. What if the vine squeezed one out of her?

:)
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

AndyJames

  • Moderator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #274 on: December 29, 2010, 08:09:20 PM »
We'd be butt to face at this point as well. What if the vine squeezed one out of her?

:)
If it is wind, you're fine. If it's something else...  :lmao

Epimetheus

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #275 on: December 29, 2010, 09:18:55 PM »
Fort save or be nauseated! Or maybe, sickened no save. :twitch

Mandoor

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #276 on: December 30, 2010, 12:39:08 AM »
Innabinder, I believe you are up to make you initative roll. Nevermind, I just over looked it.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 12:41:05 AM by Mandoor »

Mandoor

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #277 on: December 30, 2010, 10:53:33 AM »
Mthor,

You need to add 2d6 fire damage to your breath weapon damage roll because of the Bard singing "Dragonfire".
__________
DM,

I did a Nature check of 12 and a Spot check of 19 earlier.  Can I tell if the creature is fire resistant? So, I can tell the party to change their tactics.
__________

Getting all the non-range people to help resist the grapple pull in part might save the cleric.  If the range people can get some shoots off and kills it before it pulls her in we might be able to save her.

mthor

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
    • Email
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #278 on: December 30, 2010, 04:10:54 PM »
Are you sure? My breath weapon is a Su ability. I would assume it wasn't treated like a weapon for the purposes of dragon-fire inspiration because it specificly says attack and weapon damage rolls.
The god of thunder....... yeah I'm the hammer

Just ask yourself..... W.W.T.D  what would Thor do
mthor, look what you did. You made people on the internet argue. We all hate you with a fiery passion, now. :P

Hallack

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1344
Re: Sundry Discussions
« Reply #279 on: December 30, 2010, 04:13:00 PM »
Yeah, I don't think your breath weapon gets it.
Placeholder - T'tosc