Help Me Design a New Barbarian

[bkdubs123]

I feel like I need to design a proper Barbarian class. The Savager I did is cool, but it's no Barbarian. But I need some help, some inspiration. Every time I sit down to design what I would consider a "proper" Barbarian I find myself thinking that it would just be a subset of the Fighter class. Any Fighter can get pissed, right? Recently though I've been thinking, okay, maybe the Barbarian is like the Hulk. He gets pissed, so pissed, that he is able to things that he simply couldn't do before. Break out of bondage, jump 100ft in the air, negate conditions, you name it, if the Barbarian is pissed enough, he can do it. Does that sound like it could form the basis of an actually fun class? If so, can anyone think of anything else to help me get it right? If not, what other ideas do you guys have?

[MasterVega]

Hmm. Perhaps there could be some actual shape-shifting when he rages? It'd steal some of the Druid's thunder, which I'm always cool with. I think it could be a fun class for a time, but I also think the key to making it stay fun throughout the game is to give the player a bit of variety.

The last D&D game I participated in, I played a half-dragon barbarian (don't hurt me - there were newbies in the party and I didn't want to outshine them). It was fun for the first few games, simply because it's awesome to be the guy who goes around cutting mooks in half without a second thought. The novelty of the character wears off quickly, though, after the first five battles or so. Why? Because you're a one-trick pony.

Perhaps you could give the Barbarian different types of rage, maybe inspired by different animals/animal spirits?

[bkdubs123]

I know 4e did very similar stuff with their Barbarian, it has light shapeshifty powers and different rages based on the natural/wild world. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it might work out with the idea of getting pissed off and doing totally crazy stuff.

[MasterVega]

Ah. I've never actually seen the 4E Barbarian, so I had no idea.

Alternatively you could simply have rage as one of the class's defining features. I'm not sure what quite says "barbarian" other than rage, though. :\

[SiggyDevil]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9696.0

[spoiler]BARBARIAN

Tremorsense (Ex): Level 3. Distance is +60 feet each time this ability is taken.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Reduce damage taken from non-energy sources by an amount equal to half the character's level, rounded down. If a weakness to magic weapons or single alignment is added, increase the DR by 5 to a maximum value equal to the character's level.

Battle Spirit (Ex): Maneuver (Stance). This feat grants two stances, either of which is active as long as the character is conscious and spends a Swift action at the beginning of each round. Each stance activation lasts until the beginning of the next round and only one stance may be used in any given round.
Calm Stance: Gain +1 Competence bonus to AC and Reflex saves, and +2 Spot and Listen checks, for every 5 levels (levels 1, 6, 11, and 16).
Rage Stance: Gain +2 Competence bonus to attacks and damage, and reduce all damage taken by 2, for every 5 levels.

Greater Battle Spirit (Ex): BAB 11+. Add the following benefits to Battle Spirit stances;
Calm Stance: Gain Fast Healing +1 for every 5 levels, and can not be flanked.
Rage Stance: Immune to Mind-Affecting effects and Precision damage.

Fast Healing (Ex): Level 3, Constitution 19+. Heal 1 HP at the end of every 10 rounds. At level 6 increase the healing to 1 HP every round. Gaining this ability again increases the healing amount by 1 each time.

Regeneration (Ex): Level 8, Fast Healing 3, Constitution 23+. Convert all damage to nonlethal except from fire or acid. Limbs may be reattached or grow back after 3d6 minutes.

Scent (Ex): Survival 4 ranks.

Blood Purge (Ex): Maneuver (Boost). By spending HP once on the character's turn they may remove hostile status conditions, one at a time.
-5 hp:
1 point of Ability Damage
Dazed
Fatigued
Sickened
-10 hp:
Exhausted
Nauseated
Poisoned
Stunned
-20 hp:
1 Negative Level
Blinded
Deafened
Diseased[/spoiler]

[bkdubs123]

It's not enough anymore for me to just design class that gets a relevant class feature at every class level. I'd much rather have empty slots in some of the "Special" column levels, but offer a degree of choice in cool abilities similar to a Wizard's choices at every character level.

So, while stuff like Damage Reduction, Fast Healing, and Regeneration are all probably good ideas for Barbarian class features, I'm more looking for substantive ideas for a special "Rage" system that offers the Barbarian lots of choices in cool abilities that he can use when he gets pissed off. Vega's ideas are more toward that end.

Does anyone have any ideas for mechanical concepts for how this Rage System ought to work? I don't really like the idea of Rage Points being accumulated for really any reason, so what are some other options to show how pissed off the Barbarian is, and what he is able to do because of being pissed?

[SiggyDevil]

[MasterVega]

It may render the class difficult to play, but perhaps you he could get more powerful or "pissed off" depending on what fraction of HP he has left? Similarly to the shape thing, maybe when he enters a rage he allows a spirit to possess him. Every x levels he gains access to a new spirit, which would grant him different abilities.

Things like:

The Viper - The Barbarian gains +4 Dexterity and +4 Wisdom, as well as a bite attack. At later levels, his attacks while possessed by a viper spirit are all poisoned.

The Bear - The Barbarian gains +4 Strength and +4 Constitution, as well as 2 claw attacks. At later levels, he can initiate a grapple after successfully attacking an opponent with a melee attack.

The Eagle - The Barbarian gains +4 to Dexterity and +4 to Charisma (going with the D&D precedent, even though wisdom would fit better what with the sharp eyesight and everything), as well as the effects of Feather Fall. At later levels, he sprouts wings (or spirit wings) and gains a fly speed equal to his movespeed.

The Wolf - The Barbarian gains +4 to Constitution and +4 to Charisma, as well as a special howl attack that allows him to attempt to demoralize (with the Intimidate skill) all enemies within 15ft. At later levels, enemies become stunned (or dazed if they cannot be stunned) and then shaken.

Perhaps instead of static numerical increases to the abilities (IE: greater rage), perhaps he instead be possessed by an additional spirit at the same time?

[RobbyPants]

What exactly do you want this to look like?  A guy who wears fur and a loin-cloth instead of armor, but is still hard to hurt?  A guy who is crazy-strong for his size, who gets worse if he rages?  A guy with a connection to nature and animal spirits?  I kind of like all of those aspects, and if you allow in a bit of the supernatural, the spirit stuff can make up for some of the melee-types fundamental deficiencies.

Also, I don't know if you've seen the Tome Barbarian or not, but you could look at it for ideas.  It doesn't have much in the way of spirit stuff though, other than a failed save re-roll ability.  Other than that, it's an easy-mode, give-to-your-little-brother-to-play class.

[bkdubs123]

I've seen the Tome Barbarian, and it's good, but it's too easy mode. I want something like Conan meets Goku meets the Incredible Hulk with maybe some Cu Cuchlainn and Wild Shape Ranger sprinkled in for spice. So, he's cunning, and nature-y, and the more pissed off he gets the more powerful he gets, and the more powerful he gets the more outrageous stuff he's able to do. So much less about raw bonuses to Strength, attacks, and damage, and much more about crazy unique options for defying physics and natural laws.

Now, I know what I want it to be able to do, I also want a special set of mechanics to outline a special Rage System for the class. That's kind of the hard part.

[SKRP]

Remember that Conan was quite an acrobat, so few movement tricks as climb speed or sudden-leap-esque stunts should be also included.

[SiggyDevil]

I like the two stances on Tome Barbarian, both non-combat and "raging", since it provides simple modes to switch between at will.

The Rage Dice are clunky though. That should be a solid number to add, not fistfuls of dice.

[bkdubs123]

I like the two stances on Tome Barbarian, both non-combat and "raging", since it provides simple modes to switch between at will.

What two stances?

[SiggyDevil]

http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Barbarian,_Tome_%283.5e_Class%29

While not directly stated they do have two modes: Raging, and not.

While not Raging, they gain Fast Healing.

When I made a similar "rage" fix for my own designs I deliberately made both separate stances and stated it as such.

[bkdubs123]

Oh, wow, I never realized that was unraging-only. I wouldn't call that two modes though. That's literally the only class feature that works while the Barbarian isn't raging.

[RobbyPants]

If I were remaking the class from the ground up, I'd probably take the Tome barbarian as my base and go from there, adding and removing as I saw fit.  What I'd add would be all the spirit totem powers, which would complicate the class, hopefully making it less "easy mode".  Also, Siggy makes a point about the fist-full of dice.  If I added a static amount, I'd want to note that it isn't multiplied on a crit, though.  I personally don't mind the fist-full of dice approach, but it is a common complaint.

As for spirit totems, I'm not sure how I'd work them.  Perhaps you gain static abilities at various levels.  Perhaps a totem is something you can turn on and off as a swift action, and you learn new ones as you gain levels.  So, you could turn on your Bear Totem and be able to do damage and grapple as if one size larger, and maybe get a natural armor bonus, or you could go Wolf Totem and gain a faster speed and free Trip attacks.  Some totems could get blatantly supernatural, but I'm not sure how far to take it.  Perhaps a Raven Totem could give you some Divination-type effects.

Maybe one bird-type totem could actually grant you short term flight, but that might be taking it too far.  I think it'd be nice to have, but I'm not sure if it kills the theme.  Otherwise, with enough ranks in Climb, Jump, and Tumble, the barbarian might be able to "fake" having flight if there are trees, walls, or pillars near by.

[bkdubs123]

I'm not sure how I feel about spirit totems as a general theme. Maybe spirit themed Rage powers, since the player chooses those, but I don't want spirit totems as a locked in class feature. I think what I want to do is find a way to harmoniously fuse the Tome Barbarian, the Pathfinder Barbarian, and the 4e Barbarian, into a cohesive 3.5 whole that uses an original powers system.

[RobbyPants]

Hand them out as various swift action abilities.  So, a level X barbarian might get to choose any two of the following during leveling:

• Berserk (offensive rage)
• Endure (defensive rage)
• Indomitable Will
• Bear Totem
• Wolf Totem
• Eagle Totem

And maybe a slew of others.  So long as there are enough choices that you don't have to pick any totems, you might be fine.

[VennDygrem]

Idea 1: Similar to Robby's idea above, but Every few levels, the barbarian gains a new slew of spirits to channel into his rage, so while you've got a generic benefit while raging, each spirit modifies it in some particular way.  So at level 1, you can channel the Wolf, the Tortoise, or the Cheetah and while raging, you can trip on a successful hit, gain a natural armor bonus, or a speed boost. Later levels grant more exotic spirits and abilities, ie: channel the Tsunami (double damage on a charge and knock prone), Earthquake (enemies hit are stunned/dazed/what-have-you), or the Locust swarm (enemies hit are sickened and take con damage). You could go nuts and have things like channel the Ancestor Spirit (when charging you become ethereal), Volcano (explode with melee attack, dealing xd6 fire/bludgeon damage to nearby enemies), or the Berserker (whenever an adjacent enemy makes an attack against you, you can make an AoO). You could come up with any sort of abilities you wanted to, these were just tame examples. Of course, the player can shift between them as a swift action for versatility.

Idea 2: Similar to #1, but allow the player to choose a path/theme going with choices of fearsome beasts, forces of nature/elements, etc, and have unique abilities only accessible to that path. Or a specialization along the lines of totems (an earth barbarian would be tough, and his rage would make his defenses impenetrable, while a Panther barbarian's abilities would make them more of a swift striker)

Just a couple quick ideas.

[krusk]

I think the first step you should take would be to identify what you don't like about the barbarian.

Myself for instance, I don't like
1- Its a 1 level Dip
2- Its a fighter who gets angry
3- They wear armor, and use weapons. Often Full plate (mithril) and greatswords.
4- Not actually very nature themed.

So I would try to include things like
1- At level 1 you get "Primary Ability" This ability grants a benefit that scales as you take levels in this class. This scales regularly like every 3 levels or so. Along with Abilities gained at levels 2, 3, 4, and at least 5 that are solid "Hey thats cool, I want that".
2- No armor or weapon proficiency. Bonuses to unarmored, and unarmed. Maybe an unarmed strike bonus, improvised weapon bonus (That i would let transfer to untrained weapons), unarmored AC and/or DR bonus,
3- I'd include nature totems inspired from complete champion, and unearthed arcana. Stuff like "Wolf" that gives trips, bear that gives grabs, eagle that gives flight (or jumps), snake that gives poisonous bites, cats giving stalking pounce powers. These would probably kick in at level 2, 5, 7, 10, 14, and 18. Each time it would give a new thing they can do.

Again I want my barbarian in a loin cloth, and ram horn hats ramming people. Then when the foe goes down, they grab his weapon and just bash people through sheer strength regardless of their opponents weapon skill.

You could totally want to play up the nature aspect though, and have people who are more "Super dex guy" who runs up, is impossible to hit, and jumps on his foes back biting them in the neck. I'd want that to be a legit option and career choice for my barbarian class. Maybe something like "You get an Animal Trance. It gives you + {Barbarian Level} to a stat of your choice as an enhancement bonus (Helping them shy away from items, which I also would like my barbarians to do). Once this choice is made, it is permanent. While in this trance, you cannot cast spells, or do normal barbarian rage restrictions. You can do this once a fight triggered by X, Y, or Z" instead of rage. X, Y, or Z could be "as you deal damage, as you take damage, so long as you have taken no damage, as you miss an opponent in melee, as you dodge an attack in melee, as you are targeted by a spell," and so on.