Author Topic: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles  (Read 4792 times)

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dirkformica

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Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« on: December 11, 2010, 10:45:21 AM »
Yes, I've read the Druid Handbook and several other great resources here.  But I still seem to need more help.  I'm playing in a Core + Unearthed Arcana + Completes + Races + Forgotten Realms game and I want to play a Druid.  We get one flaw and one trait.  I'll be starting at level 6 and we'll probably get to about level 13 or 14.  This will be a duo campaign along with a Mystic Ranger.  He's basically all ranged combat, along with stealth, and a smidgen of melee.  He has zero social skills and I'll need to cover that.  It looks like I'll need to be the Face/Caster/Healer/Melee for the two of us. 

I was playing an Arcane caster with this guy before and it didn't work out too well.  We needed more social skills, more melee durability, and more round-by-round action.  Druid seems to be the perfect fit both mechanically and thematically.  It also seems nice because we don't get much choice in items.  We're slightly below wealth by level, and we can't buy our own items in town (it's all DM selected loot.) 

But looking at the Druid Guide I'm torn on feats and skills.  Having never played a Druid it seems like with my book selection that most options are limited.  I can take a few melee options or a few spell casting options but none seem to be too robust.  If I heavily invest I can do better but since I need to fill multiple roles, it seems difficult.  Especially since all Eberron and Terrain material (Sand/Frost/Storm/Etc.) are out.

I'd thought about a Ghostwise Halflling (FRCS) turning into a Master of Many Forms at 9th level for Cave Troll pouncing.  But that sets a lot of feats on fire with Alertness and Endurance.  It also kills Druid spellcasting for a couple of levels.  But I did like the free telepathy with the GH and the Cave Troll is pretty beastly for these levels.  I'd also looked at an Illumium Druid using the sidebar from Unearthed Arcana that lets them take a domain (i.e. Sun Domain for turning.)  That gets very feat and charisma intensive for basically 1 or maybe 2 persistent spells, but shared Bite of the X spells from Spell Compendium look nice.  Another thought was a simple Human or Strongheart Halfling with Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment Summoning, and Natural Spell.  For any of the above, a Fleshraker from Monster Manual 3 would seem to be a great companion as well as a great Wildshape choice.  I might also get access to Player's Handbook 2 for Companion Spellbound, and it's already been determined that Natural Bond from Complete Adventurer applies to the deficit to higher level Druid companions, so there's also the pet buff route.

So, from the books/class/level-range/duo options listed, what looks to be the better choices?  Yes, I'm lazy and would like breakdowns, but any advice would be nice.

Thanks in advance.

sir_argenon

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2010, 11:20:01 AM »
fist off, you have to take the natural spell feat at 6th. its mandatory! also at 6th level you can afford wands of lesser vigor, and maybe a healing belt.  so you can ditch the healer role.  the boards consider that role to be "un-optimal" anyway. 

buy your fleshraker some barding, and along with companion spellbond, and your SNA spells youre all set with melee.  it would be nice if you could get the venomfire spell from serpent kingdoms.   that really turns the damage way up.  since FR material is ok, you can look at the greenbound summoning  feat from lost empires of faerun.  it gives all your summons a very nice template.

going straight druid 20 seems like your best choice.  especially since you will be the main caster in the party.   momf is nice, but not losing caster lvls is better.

as far as being a face... thats not very hard either.  diplomacy is a class skill.  just max that, and have a decent Cha score. 

Shadowhunter

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 11:42:46 AM »
sir_argenon already said most of these things, but I'll just list it real quick.

Face: Max diplomacy, don't have a Charisma modifier that's negative.

Healer: Best thing is wand of lesser vigor or a healing belt. If you can't start with both, I'd go for the belt, since it will never run out of charges the way wands do.

Caster: Just don't loose any caster levels. MoMF is a trap in this case, it's unhelpful for what you need to get done. Also, as you say, feats on fire.
Also, good Wisdom score, obviously.

Melee: Fleshraker AC, Wild Shape and Summons ought to be able to do that.
Suggestion build below:

Human Druid 6, 32 pts buy.

Strength:11
Dexterity:14
Constitution:14
Intelligence:10
Wisdom:17(+1 at 4th)
Charisma:10

Feats:
1 Spell Focus (Conjuration), Greenbound Summoning.
3 Companion Spellbond.
6 Natural Spell.
9 Natural Bond.
12 Augmented Summoning.
15 Extra Wild Shape.

Skills:
Maxed Concentration and Diplomacy.
Add a good dose of other useful skills.


Buff your and your AC for combat, use entangle and other battlefield control so that your ranger buddy can pick them of at his leisure while your fleshraker pounces and poor fool lucky enough to escape the greenery. You've got Wild Shape to run into dangerous things if stuff gets dicey and Greenbound Summons can handle most things really. They also have entangle at-will, so there's that too.
Just remember to prepare Speak with Plants.
[Spoiler]
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I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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Mixster

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 11:51:37 AM »
Desert Half-Orc druid 20.

Grab greenbound summoning.

Put ranks in diplomacy.

Grab a fleshraker companion.

Take the sub levels from races of destiny.

Win D&D.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 12:34:43 PM »
Yeah, the only thing really stronger than that is if you dipped for turns and divine metamagic (which can be applied to your druid spells, RAW).  Nothing like having Persistant Bite of the Wearbear and Persistant Aspect of the Bulette for a 43 strength all day. 

Kuroimaken

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 12:58:32 PM »
Don't forget that summons make lovely speedbumps too.
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Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
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X-Codes

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 04:10:40 PM »
Healer isn't just about recovering HP, it's about getting rid of nasty, debilitating, save-or-lose effects.  When it comes to that, Druids really suck.  It's the one thing they really just don't do all that well ever.  That said, you can make that up if you grab some Domains.  Take a level in a PrC that gives you a domain option to get Renewal, and then pick up Planar Touchstone [Catalogues of Enlightenment] for the Liberation domain ability (a solid Slippery Mind-esque ability), and the ability to cast Break Enchantment on the odd occasion you need to.

dirkformica

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 11:29:08 PM »
-Greenbound is out (too OP and an additional bookkeeping hassle)
-Venomfire is also a non-starter for similar reasons.
-No Magic Item Compendium gear (so no Healing Belt)
-Probably no Wand of Lesser Vigor or even Cure Light Wounds (or maybe just one at character gen and no guarantee of ever getting another one.  Gear is restricted and I won't be taking any item crafting feats.)
-On the turning front, I mentioned possibly going Illumian and using the UA sidebar to get Sun domain for 1 turn attempt a day.  However, it seems like a lot of work to get 1 persisted spell, maybe 2 if I burn even more feats (since I will NOT have access to Nightsticks or Reliquery Holy Symbols.)
-Somewhat related to turning, if I were to later take Contemplative from Complete Divine, it has already been established in our group that the free Domain must be taken from the list available by the god you worship.  And this being FR, you have to take a diety.
-I'd never really looked at the Renewal domain but it would nicely compliment a Druid who may have to play the stereotypical healer at times.  Charm Person is nice on a face too.  But how to gain access with the above restriction and without dipping Cleric?
-I will not have any access to Planar Touchstones.
-Edit: Other skills that have come up a lot in this DM's campaign so far have been Gather Information and Sense Motive.  Not sure of a good way to manage that.
-Also of note, we had rolled stats with some crazy rules (re-roll 1's and 2's on 4d6 choose best.)  So my stat pool looks like: 18, 17, 17, 16, 15, 12.  This is one way to get around some of the need to cover multiple roles and to be more self sufficient in a two man team with limited gear resources.

Thanks for all the advice so far.  You've all been helpful in getting my thought process on a better track here.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 11:32:50 PM by dirkformica »

Solo

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 11:42:02 PM »
Let's think about summons. Can you summon things to heal for you? I know unicorns are available with SNA IV and can heal HP and neutralize poison...
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 11:44:31 PM by Solo »

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skydragonknight

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 11:53:07 PM »
Ranks in Heal will let you pretty much auto-save vs. secondary poison saves and win vs. disease. So really just a way to heal ability damage already taken will cover the basics.

Lesser Restoration is a Druid spell, so maybe getting it on a stick sometime over the game wouldn't be a bad thing. Just let your DM know that you'd like to either find or be able to barter for one eventually.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 12:13:34 AM »
Sense Motive is Wisdom based. So even with only a few cross-classed ranks, you should be good enough for most things. You can't even get a wand of CLW reliably? Sheesh... I hate to say this, but you might consider taking Craft Wand... You can actually afford it, feat-wise, as Greenbound is banned, and druids don't really require that many feats...

If you could make a custom item of CLW a few times per day using Craft Wondrous Item, it would be better, as you can take that at 3rd level. (You need CL5 for Craft Wand, and taking Natural Spell at 6th is pretty much mandatory).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

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Solo

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 12:20:31 AM »
If you could make a custom item of CLW a few times per day using Craft Wondrous Item, it would be better, as you can take that at 3rd level.
Maybe some sort of belt.

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 12:30:09 AM »
If you could make a custom item of CLW a few times per day using Craft Wondrous Item, it would be better, as you can take that at 3rd level.
Maybe some sort of belt.
Yeah. What a good idea.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Akalsaris

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 12:55:35 AM »
If you could make a custom item of CLW a few times per day using Craft Wondrous Item, it would be better, as you can take that at 3rd level.
Maybe some sort of belt.
Yeah. What a good idea.

It could even be a Belt of Healing...maybe with a few charges, I dunno, maybe a +2 to Heal checks might make sense...  :lmao

OP: Check out the City Slicker feat from Races of Destiny.  Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, and Knowledge (local) are always class skills for you.  Could help a bit with being the party face. 

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 12:58:47 AM »
If you could make a custom item of CLW a few times per day using Craft Wondrous Item, it would be better, as you can take that at 3rd level.
Maybe some sort of belt.
Yeah. What a good idea.

It could even be a Belt of Healing...maybe with a few charges, I dunno, maybe a +2 to Heal checks might make sense...  :lmao

OP: Check out the City Slicker feat from Races of Destiny.  Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, and Knowledge (local) are always class skills for you.  Could help a bit with being the party face.  
Say that reminds me, you don't even need to burn a feat on it... and you can get Sense Motive, too...

Quote
Skilled City-Dweller

The various wilderness-oriented skills are valuable indeed, but make less sense -- and may prove less useful -- for an urban character.

Class: Any class that has one or more of the "skills replaced," as listed below, on its list of class skills.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain the "skills replaced" as listed below.

Benefit: The skilled city-dweller gains one or more skills as class skills, at the expense of other skills. If she does not have the proper skill to lose, she cannot gain the skill it grants as an urban benefit.

Note that she need not swap out all these skills. A skilled city-dweller may pick and choose, but she cannot later change her mind.

You trade out the following skills for those at the right:

Handle Animal ------> Gather Information    
Knowledge (nature) ------> Knowledge (local)    
Survival ------> Sense Motive    
Ride ------> Tumble    



Don't ask me how to RP it. I guess you could be a city-rat who later fell in love with nature, or just go full-blown "Urban Druid", or something. If you go "Urban Druid", there are other ACFs to check out in that web enhancement.

One interesting option is basically the ability to trade out a level 1 feat and Resist Nature's Lure for a bonus feat at level 4 (Iron Constitution ACF). This can be useful if you want to pick up something you can't qualify for at level 1, and also can't spare a feat for later. With some kind of trickery to boost your CL by +1 (Spellgifted trait, etc), you could even use this to pick up Craft Wand.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 01:06:04 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2010, 11:08:25 AM »
If you want the Renewal Domain and it needs to be granted by your god, just worship Lathander.  :) He looks like a good choice anyway, and has the Sun domain too if you continue to contemplate that.

cru

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2010, 04:39:47 PM »
OTOH, with random loot, Mielikki could be a good goddess, allowing metal armor for druids.

Unearth Arcana means LA buyback is in? Pick something monstrous enough to qualify for fangshield druids (champions of valor). Perhaps volodni (unapproachable east)?

Endarire

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2010, 03:58:03 AM »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

dirkformica

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2010, 11:19:08 AM »
If you could make a custom item of CLW a few times per day using Craft Wondrous Item, it would be better, as you can take that at 3rd level.
Maybe some sort of belt.
Yeah. What a good idea.

It could even be a Belt of Healing...maybe with a few charges, I dunno, maybe a +2 to Heal checks might make sense...  :lmao

Thanks, but I'll just quote myself here:

-No Magic Item Compendium gear (so no Healing Belt)
-Probably no Wand of Lesser Vigor or even Cure Light Wounds (or maybe just one at character gen and no guarantee of ever getting another one.  Gear is restricted and I won't be taking any item crafting feats.)

Although Renewal domain caught my eye after the suggestion, at the levels we'll be playing, I'm not sure it's as useful as I'd hoped.  There's more overlap with Druid spells than I had imagined.  We might get to the point where Greater Restoration would come into play, but it's doubtful and would be short lived.  The rest, other than Charm Person, in my level range, are already Druid spells other than Atonement which I don't think would come up.  I did kind of like the Domain ability, however.

Also, I love, Love, LOVE that Cityscape webpage info.  I will totally trade Handle Animal and Survival for Gather Information and Sense Motive.  I'll need to hang on to Knowledge: Nature, however, because I want to take Dragon Wildshape at 12th and it requires a ton of ranks in Nature.  Also Urban Sense is a nice free +2 to at least one skill I will probably use.  Voice of the City could be pretty interesting too.  If I think I'll still need some animal control abilities, I could always take the Initiate of Nature feat (although from past experience I know I won't be able to keep any sizable amount of extra creatures with our group.)

Currently, I think I'm looking at 3 ideas: 1.) Ghostwise Halfling with Companion Spellbond, Natural Bond, Natural Spell, and something (gained via a flaw, leaning towards Initiate of Nature.)  I really like the telepathy because I know it will come up with this DM.  2.) Desert Half Orc with pretty much the same feats and the same question mark on the 4th one (leaning towards Extra Wildshape.)  3.) Illumian with Sun domain for 1 Turn Undead attempt per day then Extend, Persist, Natural Spell, and either Natural Bond or Companion Spellbond.  Not as keen here since that's a lot of work to get one persisted spell since I'll never ever have access to Nightsticks or Reliquary Holy Symbols.

I don't know if I'm totally sold on the Half Orc substitution levels benefit vs telepathy.  Toughness for animal companion is nothing, bully animal is nothing, it's mainly just the free Augment Summoning for animals I get from Summon Nature's Ally.  Also, due to lingering 2nd edition attitudes, I think the Half Orc will face more social prejudice than the Halfling (a cute little face versus a preconceived ugly, tusked face.)

I wish the Halfling druid sub levels were better for me.  I'd love to get that expanded skill list, but the downsides are too great, imo.  The early level spontaneous spell substitution list is lousy, and I can't give up Fleshraker form during this time period.  So I'm still possibly looking for ways to get Hide and Move Silently as class skills relatively easily.  Not critical, but would be nice with my stealthy Ranger partner.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

cru

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Re: Druid 6-13ish Needs to Fill Many Roles
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2010, 04:22:23 PM »
just want to note that you don't have to take all racial substitution levels.