Author Topic: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?  (Read 6683 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2010, 09:07:23 PM »

2. Therefore George is not a race with the [human] subtype, since all such races are blood-related (shared ancestry) to humans by definition of subtype.
Show me rules text for this.
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skydragonknight

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2010, 09:19:15 PM »
Don't have to. I've already disproved my own proof. Doing any more legwork would make me an idiot.
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Epimetheus

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2010, 12:04:08 AM »
One generally good benefit that isn't mechanical.

Humans are generally common and accepted, as a race, in most campaigns. (although it might be a natural choice as a favored enemy because of that).

Jopustopin

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2010, 03:34:46 AM »
I have some points I'd like to make:

    Points
    • No where (except in the flavor text) is an aasimar defined as "Human-Descended"
    • Which raises a question what is "Human-Descended"
    • In fact it is up to the DM to determine if a race is "Human-Descended"
    • Is a Changeling or aasimar? Races that is mentioned in the flavor text as having human ancestors
    • Is a Kalashtar?  
    • Is the Sea Kin? A creature with the human subtype already? The Sea Kin only have the following written; again in the flavor text only "It is said some humans returned to the waves.  Others believe the sea kin came into being through the intermingling of seallike fey or magical hybridization... If the latter is true then they have the human subtype but do not qualify for the feat.  Who is to decide?
    • If the term "Human-Descended" is not defined then it's up to the DM to define it.
    • It's up to the DM to decide if the human subtype alone is enough to qualify you for the feat
    • The following is written in the MM for goblin subtype: "The creature belongs to one of the goblin races."
    • Substitute human for goblin in the above definition.  Note this does not work if you read the reptilian subtype description found on p 297 of MMI

I don't like basing a prerequisite off of flavor text.  As a DM I would like to go with something mechanical.  Yet, you just can't with the feat.  The pre-requisites are necessarily flavor text.  How does the half-orc qualify unless you look at the flavor text?  It's a badly written feat.

To be honest I'd have to say that having the human subtype does not guarantee that you are descended from humans. Look at the Sea Kin.  Convergent Evolution can explain why the Sea Kin have the human subtype and yet do not have any human ancestors.

QED
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 03:37:03 AM by Jopustopin »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2010, 05:07:10 AM »
But see: VARIANT:  HALF-HUMANS AND HUMANLIKE RACES for the list of races that qualify for human heritage
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Jopustopin

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2010, 11:26:59 AM »
Variant is another word for "house-rule" which is up to the DM.  Specifically the variant calls upon the same "flavor text" to adjudicate which races do and do not qualify.  All up to the DM.

If I choose not to offer this variant then I could achieve a "similiar" (but not the same) effect by selecting a feat.

I presume Seakin would qualify because they are human like (buy virtue of their human subtype).  Gives a strong argument for other creatures with the human subtype to be "humanlike"

skydragonknight

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2010, 11:39:05 AM »
Can we list all creatures with the subtype in official books?

I know there's Azurin, Silverbrow Human, Seakin and Illumian off the top of my head.
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snakeman830

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2010, 12:10:58 PM »
It's missing Karsite from Tome of Magic, but those are a horrbile choice for a Chameleon or any spellcaster.  Manifesters, Invokers, etc. are fine, though.
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2010, 06:40:46 PM »
Variant is another word for "house-rule" which is up to the DM.
No. They are optional rules but they are rules nonetheless. House rules are sorta pulled out a random person's butt, rather than written in a WotC book. Like how PrCs are technically optional rules for the DM. They are not to be assumed in any generic dnd session.
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Amechra

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2010, 06:48:10 PM »
OK, so you've explained away my confusion.

And you caught the joke... I think. Did I actually put the joke in there?
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On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2010, 10:59:01 PM »
One benefit is Tiny von BigMcLargeHuge.

Is there any way to sneak your way into the [human] subtype at level 1 without being a wizard?
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awaken DM golem

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2010, 05:05:22 PM »

this means kobold/humans aren't really possible.


Uhh ... a mention of Savage Species rituals ; just for the chaos of the whole thing.

Widow

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2010, 04:42:07 AM »

this means kobold/humans aren't really possible.


Uhh ... a mention of Savage Species rituals ; just for the chaos of the whole thing.

Funny you should mention that, I went right to the ritual that grants subtypes when this thread started.  It specifically does not allow the human subtype ;-(

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Re: What are some good benefits of the Humanoid [Human] type?
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2010, 04:56:03 PM »
Well right ... that one doesn't.
The transformation one might do it. Dude turns into an Ogre - iirc.

(very away from book ... a little foggy on this one)