Author Topic: what is considered a 'NPC'  (Read 2655 times)

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aubs

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what is considered a 'NPC'
« on: December 05, 2010, 01:46:13 PM »
i have a question that i can't find a definate answer on. 

In an upcoming session, my group is going to have a battle royal.  everyone level 20, fight to the death,  that type of thing. 

My question is...  we all start in an 'area',  roll init, attack.  Since we are fighting to the death,   Does that make the other players no longer 'player character' and now classify them as 'npc'
and 'npc' encompasses  ever creature/race/person that is not a player character - player character being characters in your 'group', but since for this battle, MY group is ME,   everyone else's 'group' is them.

Right?

if possible can you list where it says yes thats how that works.  I've searched everyone and can't find a definite answer.

Thank you.

Bozwevial

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 01:54:45 PM »
Er. No, a PC is any character controlled by a player, an NPC is controlled by the DM. If you have two players whose characters are working at cross-purposes or aren't technically in the same adventuring party, they're still both PCs.

I'm curious, what made defining the distinction necessary? I didn't think there were any effects out there that affected players differently from NPCs, with the possible exception of Diplomacy.

aubs

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 02:09:12 PM »
So since we are all fighting each other to the death, towards me, the other PCs are still considered player characters towards me for the purpose of effects effecting them like diplomacy?

Assuming i use diplomacy(which isn't it what i'm attempting to do but it fits the example) to change one of their attitudes from hostile(which since we are attempting to kill each other i would say thats were we all start off) to friendly?

is my line of thinking wrong?

Bozwevial

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 02:11:58 PM »
Yeah, you can't use Diplomacy to change the attitude of a PC. Barring something like a compulsion effect, the player always has control over what their character chooses to do.

aubs

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2010, 02:15:29 PM »
fair enough, my line of thinking was incorrect.  Time to go to plan B.

Thank you sir for the help  :)

Mixster

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2010, 04:36:25 PM »
Just for a notice, the D&D rules work terribly when it's player character on player character. That's my opinion of them at least.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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SorO_Lost

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 02:31:32 AM »
A good DM and cooperative players can use the rules just fine though.

Fred: "I don't want him to stab me in the face, can I roll diplomacy?"
DM: "I'd like to think so, Bob?"
Bob: "Well, I'm only stabbing him because I don't like him and he smells funny. I'm sure if he takes a bath and stays away from me I can ignore him for say, 50 gold."
DM: "We'll let his check determine the amount k?"

Opposed to.
Bob: "I'm going to murder Fred's character. DIE YOU FLESH BAG!"
Fred: "Wait why are you attacking me? Can I get a diplomacy check? A save? Initiative? Something?"
Bob: "Screw building a fourth wall, my choices are my own and motivated by metagaming!"
DM:  :twitch
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
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1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 02:37:29 AM »

Opposed to.
Bob: "I'm going to murder Fred's character. DIE YOU FLESH BAG!"
Fred: "Wait why are you attacking me? Can I get a diplomacy check? A save? Initiative? Something?"
Bob: "Screw building a fourth wall, my choices are my own and motivated by metagaming!"
DM:  :twitch
Fred: I was afraid you'd try something like that.  DM, would you mind opening the sealed envelope I passed you at the beginning of this session?
DM: *reads*
Fred: Bob, you may come at me with all your strength... but you are already dead.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 04:10:34 AM »

Opposed to.
Bob: "I'm going to murder Fred's character. DIE YOU FLESH BAG!"
Fred: "Wait why are you attacking me? Can I get a diplomacy check? A save? Initiative? Something?"
Bob: "Screw building a fourth wall, my choices are my own and motivated by metagaming!"
DM:  :twitch
Fred: I was afraid you'd try something like that.  DM, would you mind opening the sealed envelope I passed you at the beginning of this session?
DM: *reads*
Fred: Bob, you may come at me with all your strength... but you are already dead.
Fred: ...And reanimated.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 03:26:29 PM »
unfortunately neither of you are making sense.

Campaigns end upon allowing pvp period.
[Spoiler]
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An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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weenog

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 03:35:04 PM »
unfortunately neither of you are making sense.

Campaigns end upon allowing pvp period.

No, that's not always true, I've played a couple myself where PVP was allowed and the campaign persevered to a suitably dramatic finale.  You do need to have players that are all aware of and accepting of a PVP-optional campaign before they start, though, and sufficiently mature that they don't consider "because I can" a good reason to rob or murder someone.
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awaken DM golem

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 07:06:50 PM »
Stab your Buddies and steal their treasure !!

Sounds like FUN (and kinda familiar ... )

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 07:53:48 PM »
and sufficiently mature that they don't consider "because I can" a good reason to rob or murder someone.
Yes, theoretically possible.
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Nytemare3701

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2010, 08:42:10 AM »
I'm guilty of that myself actually. Our barbarian player (Second highest INT in the group btw) kicked in every door he saw, and I eventually got fed up with it (in game and out) and dropped his dex to 0, put him on a floating disc, and moved on. As soon as he was well enough to move, he commenced choking the crap out of me...except for the 70% miss chance and persistent greater blink. *two hours of continual grapple checks*

Epimetheus

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Re: what is considered a 'NPC'
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 10:22:24 AM »
I'm guilty of that myself actually. Our barbarian player (Second highest INT in the group btw) kicked in every door he saw, and I eventually got fed up with it (in game and out) and dropped his dex to 0, put him on a floating disc, and moved on. As soon as he was well enough to move, he commenced choking the crap out of me...except for the 70% miss chance and persistent greater blink. *two hours of continual grapple checks*

Well at least you didn't Baleful Polymorph the guy. Or kill him and reanimate him as an undead under your control. Two hours of trying to kill you is kinda over the top though...

Anyway, back to the question. I'd say that the GM controls PCs, as long as they are main enemies. These should not be ever be diplomanced out of whatever they wanted to do, otherwise things get too easy. PC is basically an LA+0 template that says 'immune to diplomacy', and probably immune to a bunch of the other social skills too.

How about somebody in the DnD-verse creates the spell 'Detect PC'? It should only take a week and some gold. And now there are no more problems. Then people will come up with stuff like 'Protection from PC', 'Magic Circle against PC', and 'Rocks Fall' (Blasphemy variant, except Silence won't help you).