Author Topic: The Swift Hunter's Handbook  (Read 171981 times)

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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2009, 10:53:06 AM »
Me and one of my players were talkin about Swift Hunter with 1 level of Barbarian with the Lion totem from Complete Champion. Cause at 1st 3rd 16th you dont take any level penalties and you can charge and get your full attacks so you move enough to use your skirmish damage this looks very good what am I missing?

How many times are you able to do that in a row :p ?
Against single enemies is probably awesome, but it also has a whole lot other factors to put under consideration, like straight line to charge, flyers, charging in the middle of the enemy lines, difficult ground and so on.
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wolfbane

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2009, 01:22:02 PM »
Hi,

I'm trying to get a Thri-kreen gestalt character to work and I need some help.

Starting level is 10 but racial HD can be substituted by favoured class so the Thri-kreen "costs" only LA 2 which I think is very cheep.

On the other side I want soul knife/soul bow and cleric for the Travel Devotion, the ranger will be the two-weapon version(or multi-weapon in this case).

Currently the build looks like this

1. LA/Soul knife Point Blank Shot
2. LA/Soul Knife
3. Ranger/Cleric Extra Turning(turn one domain into travel devotion)
4. Ranger/Soul knife (Multi-weapon)
5. Scout/Soul knife
6. Scout/Soul bow ???/Precise Shot
7. Scout/Soul bow
8. Ranger/Soul bow ???
9. Ranger/Soul bow Swift Hunter
10. Ranger/Soul bow

BAB 8/3

So full attack give me 17/17/17/17/12

When reaching level 11 18/18/18/18/13/13/13/13

Str 12
Dex 24
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 20
Cha 12

Is there something I have missed with this build?

What feats should I choose in the empty slots?

Optimator

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2009, 04:08:54 AM »
Me and one of my players were talkin about Swift Hunter with 1 level of Barbarian with the Lion totem from Complete Champion. Cause at 1st 3rd 16th you dont take any level penalties and you can charge and get your full attacks so you move enough to use your skirmish damage this looks very good what am I missing?

How many times are you able to do that in a row :p ?
Against single enemies is probably awesome, but it also has a whole lot other factors to put under consideration, like straight line to charge, flyers, charging in the middle of the enemy lines, difficult ground and so on.
For what it's worth, all of those things can be problems for melee Swift Hunters anyway, with or without Pounce.  More so with pounce, i would imagine.

Operation Shoestring

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2009, 05:34:17 AM »
I always figured that swift hunter was a ranged thing. Melee characters have better ways of getting bonus damage than a piddly +1-5d6 if you move 10 ft.

Jvirtue55

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2009, 10:58:23 PM »
But if you pounce with a two weapon fighter you are looking and at least an extra 10 to 20 D6 depending on level

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2009, 01:37:11 AM »
But if you pounce with a two weapon fighter you are looking and at least an extra 10 to 20 D6 depending on level

Pounce + two weapon = 7 attacks
travel devotion + rapid shot = 5 attacks
travel devotion + rapid shot + splitting enchantment = 10 attacks.

Do the math.
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Midnight_v

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2009, 02:14:41 AM »
But if you pounce with a two weapon fighter you are looking and at least an extra 10 to 20 D6 depending on level

Pounce + two weapon = 7 attacks
travel devotion + rapid shot = 5 attacks
travel devotion + rapid shot + splitting enchantment = 10 attacks.

Do the math.
Okay but...
do be fair when doing the math that way maybe you should add in the correct weapon enhancement or at least equal ones.
Pounce + Two weapon + valorous enhancement= 7 attacks x 2 Damage. =14 attacks. (15 snap kick)
travel devotion + rapid shot + splitting enchantment = 10 attacks.
Two weapon rend comes to mind but I realize I've never actually read that feat.
Still the comparative formula would be .
(feat + style + weapon enhancement = value)
Amazingly enough a +1 splitting Bow and Two +1 valorous weapons both amount to +4 weapon enhancement.
However...
Splitting bow = $32,000
Valorous weapon x2 = 16,000 (14,000 available for further enchantment)
Being able to save the world via good economics? = Priceless
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Operation Shoestring

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2009, 06:50:39 AM »
splitting doesn't double precision damage.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #68 on: April 21, 2009, 09:18:17 AM »
splitting doesn't double precision damage.

Really? That may actually suck a little. Oh well, +3 more to work with.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2009, 10:22:54 AM »
Ah, doubling base damage is still pretty good.
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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2009, 11:50:06 AM »
Okay but...
do be fair when doing the math that way maybe you should add in the correct weapon enhancement or at least equal ones.
Pounce + Two weapon + valorous enhancement= 7 attacks x 2 Damage. =14 attacks. (15 snap kick)
travel devotion + rapid shot + splitting enchantment = 10 attacks.
Two weapon rend comes to mind but I realize I've never actually read that feat.
Still the comparative formula would be .
(feat + style + weapon enhancement = value)
Amazingly enough a +1 splitting Bow and Two +1 valorous weapons both amount to +4 weapon enhancement.
However...
Splitting bow = $32,000
Valorous weapon x2 = 16,000 (14,000 available for further enchantment)
Being able to save the world via good economics? = Priceless

Ehm, i don't think that valorous multiplies precision damage. And we all know that charger builds always use two handed weapons to be effective (optimized power attack). I don't remember two weapon rend, but the last time i read the entry left me unimpressed.
Also, gloves of endless javelins MIC, only 8.000 for throwing force javelins all day long, trumps any weapons and has the added benefit of looking inconspicuous :p

splitting doesn't double precision damage.

Arguably it does, but it's not really important :p
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Optimator

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2009, 12:12:59 AM »
Since one has to roll for each attack with a splitting weapon, precision damage applies to all of the arrows.  It isn't treated as a volley.

Jvirtue55

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2009, 08:20:38 PM »
Where is the Valorous enchantment from? and what does Snap Kick Do?

And here is another question what about hurling charge from the Minis hand book how does that work with a pouncing character

Shadowhunter

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2009, 08:49:49 PM »
Snap Kick gives an aditional unarmed attack. So the additonal damage from that doesn't strike me (pun not intended) as especially impressive. It's in Tome of Battle.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
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[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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Operation Shoestring

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2009, 11:41:16 AM »
Snap Kick gives an aditional unarmed attack. So the additonal damage from that doesn't strike me (pun not intended) as especially impressive. It's in Tome of Battle.

Snak kick works on standard action attacks.  And AoO's.  It's very versatile.

Caelic

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2009, 02:08:14 PM »

Snak kick works on standard action attacks.  And AoO's. 


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Shadowhunter

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2009, 08:25:09 PM »
Oh, I'm not saying Snap Kick is bad. Au contraire, I like it alot.
However, I do belive that factoring it in as a contributing part in the melee vs. ranged debate is wrong in this case.
Since it'll arguably just be an unarmed strike at very low damage output due to not having the luxury access to the afformentioned Valorous weapons.

On proper Monks I like it.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

TWF

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2009, 04:03:18 AM »
Any serious advice for a heavy repeating crossbow swift hunter? I know it is sub-par, but I just like the thought of a gatling crossbow(!!flavor alert!!.

Akalsaris

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2009, 07:22:39 AM »
Check out the archery handbook on this board for starters =)

I'd only really do it if the character could start with a +1 Self-Loading Crossbow (an enchantment from the MIC that magically loads the weapon with 100 bolts before you have to reload).  Sadly, 5 bolts before you need to spend a full-round action to reload is really not very impressive.

If you're looking for a crossbow that really packs a punch, the Great Crossbow (Races of Stone, improved the damage, range, and critical range!) is a great pick.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2009, 10:54:53 AM »
Make sure to take a level in fighter using the Targetteer variant from Dragon for the Vital Aim ability (check CrystalKeep).
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol