Author Topic: The Swift Hunter's Handbook  (Read 172443 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Schala_Zeal

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2008, 04:46:00 AM »
You should probably mention the sub levels from Sandstorm - they are campaign dependent but pretty nice for desert campaigns.  But not really changing the power level - just customizing to the terrain expected.

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2008, 10:31:53 AM »
You should probably mention the sub levels from Sandstorm - they are campaign dependent but pretty nice for desert campaigns.  But not really changing the power level - just customizing to the terrain expected.

You are right, i missed them! Thanks. Although they are not anything important as you said. Improved heat endurance is ok i guess, if you already somehow have heat endurance.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Ubernoob

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
  • Happy Panda
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2008, 10:40:16 PM »
Well, duh.  I said it makes me feel dirty.  It just feels like cheating to me.  Not that I wouldn't suggest it to someone else, but I don't want to use it myself.

Obviously you're not the only poster here  :looloo
And of course, moving as a swift action some minutes per day is not cheating. This just gives you some bonus dice to damage and a couple of points to your AC. The synergy is great, since they complement each other. For example, shadowcraft mages need their earth spell. Chargers need their lion totem barbarian dip. Incantatrixes need their custom magic spellcraft item. DMM persistent for clerics and the list goes on. However note that swift hunter + travel devotion hardly tops any of the above.
Let me clarify:
1) I know travel devotion is probably the most optimal path.
2) I won't use it myself.
3) I will suggest it to other people.

So, yeah.  I limit myself somewhat.  I'm strange like that.
Ubernoob is a happy panda.

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2008, 04:57:30 PM »
Updates.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Optimator

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
  • Made Man
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2008, 12:13:01 PM »
I noticed you have the Restful armor crystal as a blue item.  Don't rangers get Endurance as a bonus feat and usually wear light armor anyway?

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2008, 11:47:34 AM »
I noticed you have the Restful armor crystal as a blue item.  Don't rangers get Endurance as a bonus feat and usually wear light armor anyway?

You are right, not very useful.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


RabidPirateMan

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2008, 02:47:22 AM »
No mention of the UA Ranger sub for wildshaping?

Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Best Build.
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2008, 01:55:41 PM »
I keep getting pms from people about my best swift hunter build. This build is now possible thanks to the complete champion errata (no need to permanently give up your turn undead attempts anymore!). However i will make the following assumptions:

  • You are a worshipper of Mystra.
  • You can take travel devotion even though it is not in mystra's portfolio. Note that since you are a ranger it is not thematically wrong
  • Multiclassing penalties are enforced.
  • Race is human.
  • Able learner is dropped, because you end up using it for one or two skills, since ranger and scout class skills are similar. Someone could argue that you could use it to equalize your skills with that cleric level, but 1 rank less is not that bad.
  • Main weapon are the force javelins created from the awesome gloves of endless javelins MIC.

So, here it is:

  • Level 1: You start out by taking a level of scout. This is obviously for the awesome 8+int skill points. Your feats for the level should be point blank shot and extra favored class (scout).
  • Level 2: Cloistered cleric level. You are a mystra cleric, so the best combination of domains is magic + rune or spell. You get knowledge domain for free, so you can swap it for knowledge devotion an awesome feat which translates at +1 damage and to hit. To fuel your devotion, spend one rank in each and every knowledge that identifies creatures (nature, local, arcana, religion, dungeoneering, the planes, etc, you get the picture).
  • Level 3: Time to take the first ranger level to get an actual boost to your BAB. Be sure to grab arcane hunter and fix your skills with skilled city dweller ACF (namely handle animal for tumble) and trap expert.
  • Level 4-6: All are scout levels. It is beautiful to see that the two dips you did earlier now help you get two feats on level 6, which will be spent on swift hunter and improved skirmish. Don't just take travel devotion yet, you will not need it as you can't do more than one attack per round (due to your low BAB).
  • Level 7-20: All the rest are ranger levels. The ACFs you should take are the awesome Shooting Star, Mystra's ranger organization. It is important to pick the two handed weapon style as it will net you more than enough attacks to optimize your damage output with your javelins. Your next first open feat (at level 9) should be travel devotion. Get a reliquary holy symbol and/or nightstick to activate it without problems. Next feats for 12, 15 and 18 are open to you. Some of the greatest picks are sword of the arcane order, minor shapeshift, darkstalker, practiced spellcaster, improved precise shot and nemesis

Variation: Only available when you have awesome stats (you need at least a 17-18 stat to put into wisdom), drop the weapon style, get wild-shaping ranger and dragon wild shape at 12. You basically drop some combat potential for more utility (many spell-like abilities - check faerie dragon! - movement modes, awesome AC).

What this baby can do:

  • Scout, spy and all that jazz.
  • Use cleric, wizard and ranger wands, basically that's most of the spells you'll ever need in the game. Keep in your inventory some low level touch spell wands in case you run out of travel devotion uses.
  • Competent in combat, can reach 7 * 7d6 + weapon attacks. Still has 18 BAB from 20 levels!
  • Ability to disable traps.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


woodenbandman

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2008, 04:11:45 PM »
Hey all.

Just a thought: How dumb would a swift hunter zen archer be? With a monk's belt and such (and perhaps some soulbow, but not necessarily). It would look a bit like CC1/Scout4/Ranger a lot?



Sinfire Titan

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5697
  • You've got one round to give a rat's ass.
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2008, 04:53:58 PM »
Hey all.

Just a thought: How dumb would a swift hunter zen archer be? With a monk's belt and such (and perhaps some soulbow, but not necessarily). It would look a bit like CC1/Scout4/Ranger a lot?




I'd recomend PrC Ranger variant over normal for a Zen Archer. May work out better.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

woodenbandman

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2008, 05:11:15 PM »
I was also thinking that but I don't know if that would work. It would be nice, though.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2009, 08:20:19 PM »
Good thing this is a handbook... Anyways:

The swarm bit is really funny. I'd say that the swarm subtype is a valid enough creature subtype to be pickable. If a Neutral Good ranger can have every single evil enemy out there as a favored enemy, why can't a vermin hating riot policeman gone Ranger have the specific little swarm subtype as a favored enemy? After all we have humanoid and outsider subtypes to chose from...

Also I'd like to point out that various items side-by-side in the same book mention sneak attack and sudden strike for one item but not skirmish, while others mention only skirmish (and a few in different books mention all three).

It seems pretty clear that there is no skirmish-sneak attack transparency like there is for sudden attack and sneak attack (but ah, we can dream...)
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2009, 06:44:23 AM »
Just thought I'd provide some feedback based on the swift hunter I'm playing right now.

I joined the campaign at 10th level, and went with Scout 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ranger 5->7.  The campaign focuses very heavily on humans, so I got arcanists, humans, and constructs as my 3 favored enemies, and goblins as a 4th using the FR feat.  I also took improved favored enemy, knowledge devotion, and point blank shot, basically just to add lots of numbers to the damage dice since magic items are practically non-existent in the campaign. 

The first 2 combats went well, except that the druid and I tended to over-shadow the party more than I expected, and I found that I wasn't using travel devotion as often as I expected.  I ended up re-speccing to Scout 3/Ranger 9, which fits the character better, and replacing the goblin favored enemy with moving feats around and grabbing improved skirmish and taking travel devotion as a normal feat for big fights.  We'll see how well the re-spec goes, but given that I added another iterative attack and gained more ranger spell-casting, I think it should work out well. 

As for other points, I found that the animal companion (I have a crocodile as this is an aquatic campaign) has actually proved pretty useful as a deterrent to opponents gunning for me. 




Dictum Mortuum

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • always female suspects
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2009, 03:37:43 PM »
Ah, nice ^-^
May i ask why didn't you use travel devotion? What factor kept you from using it?
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Operation Shoestring

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 937
  • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2009, 11:09:10 PM »
Anyone remember where the Scout variant with a mount is?

BowenSilverclaw

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5337
  • Walking that fine line between genius and insanity
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2009, 11:10:39 PM »
Dragon Magazine.

Not quite certain about the issue number though, should be on Crystalkeep in any case.
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2009, 08:28:10 AM »
Ah, nice ^-^
May i ask why didn't you use travel devotion? What factor kept you from using it?

Mostly the DM's style - we never fought more than 1 combat per in-game day (and rarely even 2 per session, it's more RP and goofing off heavy than anything).  Since I didn't really need more than 1 use of the feat per day, and even without it my character is quite competitive with the rest of the party, cloistered cleric became more of a dead level than I had anticipated. 

Also, 1 combat involved defending a single balcony from an invading army, so I didn't get to use travel devotion until the last guy.  But it was worth it to go from dealing ~30 damage a round to suddenly hitting the last guy for about 110 damage with a crit and skirmish dice.  Improved favored enemy (human) has been the source of most of the damage in the build (+9 damage per shot in a game without magic or a buffer is pretty significant), but that's really campaign-specific, so I can't recommend it to everyone. 

I'd normally go for trap-finding, but the DM doesn't like traps, so despite the party having me and a ranger/thief-acrobat, nobody has search or disable device trained. 

Build (from memory, afb right now)
Jey, NE Human Scout 3/Ranger 9
1st char: Point Blank Shot
1st hmn: Precise Shot
3rd char: Travel Devotion
4th ranger bonus: Track, FE: Arcanists +2
5th ranger bonus: Rapid Shot, FE: Arcanists +2, Humans +4
6th ranger bonus: Endurance
6th char: Swift Hunter
9th char: Improved Favored Enemy
9th ranger bonus: Multishot
10th: FE: Arcanists +2, Humans +6, Constructs +2
12th char: Improved Skirmish
In the future...
14th ranger bonus: Improved Precise Shot
15th planned: Improved Critical (Composite Longbow), FE: Arcanists +2, Humans +8, Constructs +2, Elementals +2
18th planned: Woodland Archer (RotW) or Darkstalker (LoM)
20th planned: FE: Arcanists +2, Humans +10, Constructs +2, Elementals +2, Undead +2

ACFs: FE: Arcanists (CM), then the cityscape ones are planned for 13th and 17th. 
Pet: Snap the Crocodile
Spells: one spell that makes your next attack an automatic threaten (Hunter's Mercy?  1st lvl), and 1 that makes all threats automatically critical (Exacting Shot?  2nd lvl).

Misc: he's also got a pair of +2 Keen kukris found on the opponents.  Makes me wish I were a melee ranger, but since the character has a decent strength it could work out well against opponents in melee anyhow.  Basically Jey is focused on killing other humans, but gets skirmish against most creatures normally immune to it.  To be honest, the DM probably wouldn't even realize that I can't skirmish elementals, etc, but I play fair :P

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2009, 09:17:27 AM »
Hmm...and it just occurred to me that if I switched Improved Skirmish for Natural Bond, my effective druid level would be 9/2+3=7, high enough to upgrade Snap to a giant crocodile, gaining 2 size categories 9good for improved grab), 37 HP, +15 more to grapple, and 1d8+6 damage per hit. 

I might just do that.

Jvirtue55

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2009, 06:01:58 PM »
Me and one of my players were talkin about Swift Hunter with 1 level of Barbarian with the Lion totem from Complete Champion. Cause at 1st 3rd 16th you dont take any level penalties and you can charge and get your full attacks so you move enough to use your skirmish damage this looks very good what am I missing?

BowenSilverclaw

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5337
  • Walking that fine line between genius and insanity
    • Email
Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2009, 06:34:16 PM »
what am I missing?
Punctuation? :eh

But yeah, it's a great dip for TWF Skirmishers :)
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol