Author Topic: The Swift Hunter's Handbook  (Read 172479 times)

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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #220 on: July 01, 2011, 08:40:30 PM »
Hi, I'd like Dictum to know that I've just traduced his guide into italian to my forum (here's the link; of course he got credit for it), as well as added my PoV and consideration, and adding some new material, including some from Dragon Magazines and ToB.
If you (Dictum) want (it seems like you don't have time/mind to even fix the BB code, so i'm asking), i can try to sum up the changes from your version (new features as well as things i found to be misjudged).

Oh, very nice work. I don't know much Italian, but I could figure most parts out. Sure, go ahead and inform me of the changes you made. As soon my exams period is over, I'll try to update my handbooks :D
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Ithiliond

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #221 on: August 01, 2011, 07:15:34 PM »
I've read your reply yesterday for the first time. Now I'm the one who's busy, but I'll try to make a quick summary, avoiding the minor changes:

  • Races: Added Varag (MM IV) and Lupin (Dr #325), not because they're good, but they deserved a mention because of their favourite class.
  • Damage Dealing: I don't really know what you were thinking of while saying that a warrior deals more damage then a Swift Hunter. You said that SHs are more like rogues, and imvho, a rogue is a Damage Dealer, and a Swift Hunter fits even more in this role. A full attack with splitting arrows and improved skirmish deals potentially 56d6 + 8d8 damage (expected 232 damage) without considering Str and enhancement bonuses, or other kind of buffs (like haste).
  • Statistics: Expanded the list of manual used for your statistics about naturally precision-immune creature types. I thaught that including Libris Mortis but not the Planar Handbook could be a bad choice, so i considered every official book i could tink of. The statistic hasn't changed much, anyway.
  • Ways of using skirmish: Added DC 40 Tumble check from OA to make a free 10 ft step, Heroic Surge (Age of Mortals), the ToB stance Press the Advantage, and the mention worth item training dummy of the master (Arms and Equipment Guide). Also, i've made some essential changes to method's color.
  • ACF: Added Mystic Ranger (Dr #336), Wild Defender (Dr #324), Solitary Hunter (Dr #347), New Combat Styles (Dr #326) for the ranger; Light Cavalry (Dr #346) and Sniper (Dr #346) for the scout.
  • Substitution Levels: Added Moon Warded Ranger (Dr #340)
  • Multiclass: Added an entirely new section considering the convenience of extra dips in other classes.
  • Feats: Changed some colours (Crossbow Sniper is a good feat, even without focusing on crossbows; Tactile Trapsmith is red, if you got low Int why wasting points on Disable Device?), added some more (like Ranged Skirmisher, Dead Eye and Heroic Surge) and some flaws from Dr Magazine.
  • Combat styles: Disagreed with your love for thrown weapons. Need TWF series feats (and SH don't have much spare feats) to increase the number of attacks, but a splitting bow is just better. Moreover you'll need a lot of magic thrown weapons at high levels, and every thrown weapon costs as much as every other weapon. Too much expensive.
  • Spells: Added some new from SC for the ranger list, and some other God-wizard spells SHs can benefit from.
  • ToB: Added a whole ToB section about useful maneuvers obtainable via swordsage/warblade dips or Martial Adept-Martial Stance feats.
  • Magic Items: Added some new ones, like crystal of mind cloaking, quiver of plenty (Dr Mag Comp Vol I), ring of spell-battle (i just love it too much)

That's all, I will post details later on (next month, maybe) if you are interested ;)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 07:20:05 PM by Ithiliond »
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Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #222 on: August 02, 2011, 01:29:37 AM »
That's good work. It would be great to get a more detailed summary of that for the english guide.

And I know now that IMHO the much loved Arcane Hunter ACF seems a bit overrated: There simply aren't as many hostile spellcasters as there are undead or other immune monsters. Taking Undead and Constructs as your favoured enemies (for the 5-level swift-hunter block) seems a solid choice, all in all.

Archao

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #223 on: August 05, 2011, 06:54:41 AM »
That's good work. It would be great to get a more detailed summary of that for the english guide.

And I know now that IMHO the much loved Arcane Hunter ACF seems a bit overrated: There simply aren't as many hostile spellcasters as there are undead or other immune monsters. Taking Undead and Constructs as your favoured enemies (for the 5-level swift-hunter block) seems a solid choice, all in all.
I believe the Arcane Hunter ACF also affects creatures with SLAs, which greatly improves it, and may include some undead and/or constructs.

(Nope, nevermind, just checked. Specifically says no to SLAs.)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:58:02 AM by Archao »

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #224 on: August 08, 2011, 01:37:55 PM »
Yes, that's right, it's really only a very narrow group of enemies that are affected, and that's not really worthwhile IMHO - even if it might give you an edge against most BBEGs - you'll have to get there, first.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #225 on: August 17, 2011, 01:38:42 PM »
I've read your reply yesterday for the first time. Now I'm the one who's busy, but I'll try to make a quick summary, avoiding the minor changes:

  • Races: Added Varag (MM IV) and Lupin (Dr #325), not because they're good, but they deserved a mention because of their favourite class.
  • Damage Dealing: I don't really know what you were thinking of while saying that a warrior deals more damage then a Swift Hunter. You said that SHs are more like rogues, and imvho, a rogue is a Damage Dealer, and a Swift Hunter fits even more in this role. A full attack with splitting arrows and improved skirmish deals potentially 56d6 + 8d8 damage (expected 232 damage) without considering Str and enhancement bonuses, or other kind of buffs (like haste).
  • Statistics: Expanded the list of manual used for your statistics about naturally precision-immune creature types. I thaught that including Libris Mortis but not the Planar Handbook could be a bad choice, so i considered every official book i could tink of. The statistic hasn't changed much, anyway.
  • Ways of using skirmish: Added DC 40 Tumble check from OA to make a free 10 ft step, Heroic Surge (Age of Mortals), the ToB stance Press the Advantage, and the mention worth item training dummy of the master (Arms and Equipment Guide). Also, i've made some essential changes to method's color.
  • ACF: Added Mystic Ranger (Dr #336), Wild Defender (Dr #324), Solitary Hunter (Dr #347), New Combat Styles (Dr #326) for the ranger; Light Cavalry (Dr #346) and Sniper (Dr #346) for the scout.
  • Substitution Levels: Added Moon Warded Ranger (Dr #340)
  • Multiclass: Added an entirely new section considering the convenience of extra dips in other classes.
  • Feats: Changed some colours (Crossbow Sniper is a good feat, even without focusing on crossbows; Tactile Trapsmith is red, if you got low Int why wasting points on Disable Device?), added some more (like Ranged Skirmisher, Dead Eye and Heroic Surge) and some flaws from Dr Magazine.
  • Combat styles: Disagreed with your love for thrown weapons. Need TWF series feats (and SH don't have much spare feats) to increase the number of attacks, but a splitting bow is just better. Moreover you'll need a lot of magic thrown weapons at high levels, and every thrown weapon costs as much as every other weapon. Too much expensive.
  • Spells: Added some new from SC for the ranger list, and some other God-wizard spells SHs can benefit from.
  • ToB: Added a whole ToB section about useful maneuvers obtainable via swordsage/warblade dips or Martial Adept-Martial Stance feats.
  • Magic Items: Added some new ones, like crystal of mind cloaking, quiver of plenty (Dr Mag Comp Vol I), ring of spell-battle (i just love it too much)

That's all, I will post details later on (next month, maybe) if you are interested ;)

Ah, thanks for the answer! I'll note some of my objections:

  • Damage Dealing: Sure they can, but only within 30ft. A dedicated archer can potentially be lethal at extreme ranges and probably won't care about immunities to precision damage.
  • Ways of using skirmish: I avoid anything not 3.5, that's why OA, A&E and dragonlance are out. Press the advantage should be added though, good call.
  • ACF: I'm not using dragon magazines in any of my guides.
  • Substitution Levels: As above.
  • Feats: I'll have to review the feat section. I forgot about heroic surge.
  • Combat styles: Two weapon fighting feats are free from ranger. Even if you go ranged style, you can get just one feat (TWF) and use gloves of the balanced hand. And you get endless force javelins from that set item just for 8.000 as a free action (not swift!). No reason to buy anything else. On the other hand several DMs I've met disagree with applying skirmish to each splitted arrow. I'm not saying it's correct, but sometimes you won't get the precision damage.
  • ToB: ToB is a good option, I might include something.
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Ithiliond

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #226 on: August 22, 2011, 12:19:20 PM »
Ah, thanks for the answer! I'll note some of my objections:

  • Damage Dealing: Sure they can, but only within 30ft. A dedicated archer can potentially be lethal at extreme ranges and probably won't care about immunities to precision damage.
  • Ways of using skirmish: I avoid anything not 3.5, that's why OA, A&E and dragonlance are out. Press the advantage should be added though, good call.
  • ACF: I'm not using dragon magazines in any of my guides.
  • Substitution Levels: As above.
  • Feats: I'll have to review the feat section. I forgot about heroic surge.
  • Combat styles: Two weapon fighting feats are free from ranger. Even if you go ranged style, you can get just one feat (TWF) and use gloves of the balanced hand. And you get endless force javelins from that set item just for 8.000 as a free action (not swift!). No reason to buy anything else. On the other hand several DMs I've met disagree with applying skirmish to each splitted arrow. I'm not saying it's correct, but sometimes you won't get the precision damage.
  • ToB: ToB is a good option, I might include something.

Hi again :)
  • Damage Dealing: I don't think the 30ft limitation is that relevant, in terms of damage dealing. Even without increasing the skirmish damage range to 60 ft (you have 2 options to do it), a Swift Hunter's great mobility allows him to reach most enemies in the battlefield.
    On the other hand, assuming what you're saying, no melee class should be considered a damage dealer at all, but i hope that everyone here agrees that a charger is a damage dealer.
  • Combat styles: You can have the gloves of Balanced Hands or the ones of Endless Javelin. Anyway javelins are always just +1 (enhancement bonus), and at high levels one might want something "more" than just +1 weapons. Moreover that gloves aren't listed in the guide.
    From my PoV, focusing on throwing weapons is not a bad choice, but it isn't that great too (as it seemed from your original post).

[EDIT] @zugschef: I hope it's less confusing now...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 01:00:57 AM by Ithiliond »
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zugschef

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #227 on: August 22, 2011, 03:19:53 PM »
@Ithiliond: what exactly are you trying to say? your post is totally confusing...

borsniel

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #228 on: August 22, 2011, 05:41:30 PM »
ive got to agree with dictum on swift hunters not being damage dealers. the biggest issue is the 30ft range and how feat starved they are. a straight fighter can do more damage at longer range more accurately, and wont be screwed up by things like fortification armors. on the other hand a swift hunter will be able to provide the group with more that just damage, so its a nice trade off in my veiw.

CantripN

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #229 on: August 22, 2011, 06:16:14 PM »
From what I've seen, a Swift-Hunter is a GREAT source of damage, assuming that's not all you have going for you. It's a trick, but not the only one you have.
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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #230 on: August 22, 2011, 06:22:35 PM »
Battle Jumper isn't in here as a feat? Turn that one-level dip into Barbarian into a full "hit them every which way from Sunday".

Also, Lion Tribe Pounce is a nice regional feat; Pounce with light weapons WITHOUT a dip.
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zugschef

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #231 on: August 22, 2011, 06:26:58 PM »
Battle Jumper isn't in here as a feat? Turn that one-level dip into Barbarian into a full "hit them every which way from Sunday".
battle jump is a 3.0 feat (unapproachable east) and some people including dictum mortuum don't like using 3.0 and dragon material.

KolyaMollari

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #232 on: October 11, 2011, 07:28:14 PM »
Penetrating Shot (I believe that's what it's called) mixed with the multiple arrows that you can produce with a swift hunter build can make you a devastating blaster in mob fight scenerios

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #233 on: October 11, 2011, 08:42:31 PM »
Penetrating Shot (I believe that's what it's called) mixed with the multiple arrows that you can produce with a swift hunter build can make you a devastating blaster in mob fight scenerios

IIRC it's a standard action and precision damage affects only the first target.
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Ithiliond

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #234 on: October 18, 2011, 01:21:34 PM »
Battle Jumper isn't in here as a feat? Turn that one-level dip into Barbarian into a full "hit them every which way from Sunday".
battle jump is a 3.0 feat (unapproachable east) and some people including dictum mortuum don't like using 3.0 and dragon material.
Unapproachable East is 3.5 ready (it has notes on conversion)
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