Author Topic: The Swift Hunter's Handbook  (Read 169697 times)

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Dusk Eclipse

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #200 on: February 22, 2011, 10:09:23 PM »
ImaBinder@ I just said that it is an option, not a must take, besides it is a pretty good feat for any meleer, as it lets you ignore all magic based concealment, for example if an enemy has a cloak of displacement, you can't sneak attack or skirmish it due the rule on precision damage, but with pierce magical concealment, you don't have to worry about it.

Yuukale

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #201 on: February 23, 2011, 12:02:24 AM »
So... I've been trying to make the most dmg out of these swift guys, here's what i've came up with so far:

Build[spoiler]

Elf
32-point buy

Str 10
Dex 18(20)
Con 12(10)
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 10

Class Progression:
               
1:Scout1 - Skirmish +1d6 - Travel Domain

2:(Cloistered) Cleric of Solonor Thelandira1 - Turn Undead; (Knowledge), Elf, War domain. - Point Blank Shot; Weapon Focus

3:Scout2 -Precise Shot

4:Scout3 - Skirmish +2d6 / +1 AC      

5:Rogue1 -   Sneak Attack +1d6      

6:Scout4 - Swift Ambusher;   Rapid Shot

7:Rogue2         
8:Rogue3

9:Rogue4 - Improved Skirmish

10:Rogue5
11:Rogue6

12:Rogue7 - Manyshot

13:Rogue8
14:Rogue9

15:Rogue10 - Woodland Archer instead of special ability; Expeditious Dodge

16:Rogue11   
17:Rogue12

18:Rogue13 - Greater Manyshot instead of special ability; Improved Precise Shot

19:Rogue14
20:Rogue15

ITEMS:

Tome [Dex]+5    137,5k
Bracers of Archery - Greater   25k
Goggles of the Ebon Hunter   18k
Belt of Battle   12k
Rogue's Vest   18k
Mantle of the Predator   8k
Scout's Headband     3.4k OR Helm of the Hunter 9k
Skirmisher's Boots     3.2k
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Dragon's Eye Amulet   55k
Ring of Blinking   27k
Ring of Vanishing   30k

Armor:
Mithral Chainshirt of Freedom +5 + Greater Crystal of Mind Cloaking (100k + 10k)

Weapon:
Splitting Deadly Precision Keen Longbow +5 (200k)

And there's room for ehlonna's quiver, various arrows, nightsticks, a tome to boost cha (more travel devotion uses through turn undead)...

[/spoiler]

In Combat:
[spoiler]
You probably will have won initiative or surprised your enemies most of the times, due to your high dex and skill points, giving you the two first rounds of sneak attack without resorting to the ring of blink or other means.

*First you walk to activate your skirmish (and expeditious dodge) then manyshot at +27/+27/+27 + splitting +27/+27/+27 (and if any arrow miss, the others will have a +4 to hit due to woodland archer feat).
After this, you use a swift action to activate the belt of battle for a full round where you rapid shot at: +31/+31/+26/+21 + splitting +31/+31/+26/+21.

Each arrow deals 1d8+5 + 18d6+2 ~ I leave the rest of the math up to you, but it's A LOT of damage. This manyshot+rapidshot is a one-time trick, but if you manage to pull this off, it'll be worth it. The rest of the combat you rely on rapid shot while blinking.

*I'm not factoring in the possible knowledge devotion bonus.
[/spoiler]

I really would like comments on how to improve this if possible and I apologize for any mistakes you may find in this build.

Thanks.

InnaBinder

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #202 on: February 23, 2011, 12:12:49 AM »
ImaBinder@ I just said that it is an option, not a must take, besides it is a pretty good feat for any meleer, as it lets you ignore all magic based concealment, for example if an enemy has a cloak of displacement, you can't sneak attack or skirmish it due the rule on precision damage, but with pierce magical concealment, you don't have to worry about it.
Who?

My experience is that the number of enemies who use only a single method of protection from SA/Skirmish is vanishingly small.  See also: Constructs, Undead, Oozes, Plants, etc.
Winning an argument on the internet is like winning in the Special Olympics.  You won, but you're still retarded.

I made a Handbook!?

Zoblefu

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2011, 01:13:28 AM »
@Yuukale:

In an errata I have read but am too lazy to look up right now, it defines the extra arrows from the splitting enhancement to be considered a barrage... long story short, the extra arrows from splitting cannot gain precision damage (neither sneak nor skirmish).

Zoblefu

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #204 on: February 23, 2011, 01:18:48 AM »
@Yuukale:

In an errata I have read but am too lazy to look up right now, it defines the extra arrows from the splitting enhancement to be considered a barrage... long story short, the extra arrows from splitting cannot gain precision damage (neither sneak nor skirmish).

Or at least this is what I was told by a DM, I can't seem to find the source of the errata/FAQ/whatever it was at the moment.

bearsarebrown

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #205 on: February 23, 2011, 01:32:47 AM »
Splitting is based on the Arrowsplit spell, which isn't a barrage. The text doesn't call it a barrage. There is no errata. RAW is crystal clear and supported from multiple sources.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #206 on: February 23, 2011, 03:59:56 PM »
ImaBinder@ I just said that it is an option, not a must take, besides it is a pretty good feat for any meleer, as it lets you ignore all magic based concealment, for example if an enemy has a cloak of displacement, you can't sneak attack or skirmish it due the rule on precision damage, but with pierce magical concealment, you don't have to worry about it.
Who?

My experience is that the number of enemies who use only a single method of protection from SA/Skirmish is vanishingly small.  See also: Constructs, Undead, Oozes, Plants, etc.

Sorry to misspell the name, I was posting from my cell phone and I misread your user-name.  :embarrassed.
for Construct, undead and plants, there are wands of grave/vine/golem(?)[I am sure that there is one for constructs] strike, oozes and elementals are much more rare IME.
 

stranglebat

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #207 on: February 24, 2011, 12:37:30 PM »
Elementals are more common than you think

Check the numbers at the start of the guide, 84 elementals from SRD, MM I - IV, Sandstorm, Fiend Folio, Frostburn, Stormwrack, Libris Mortis. compared to 119 undead and 94 constructs. Not so rare really. Also don't forget there are some prestige classes that grant immunity and quite a few items (Fortification armor) which you have no way around without a friend casting antimagic spells.

That said i think anything that lets you ignore the concealment effects negating your Precision damage is going to be somewhat useful. The feat is worth more than just negating the ring of blinking :)

GrahamA

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #208 on: March 08, 2011, 04:19:48 AM »
Hi all,
    What a great thread, this has been a wealth of knowledge. I’ve noticed a preference for Archery combat style which doesn’t help my character.

Since finding this thread I have been given the "one time" chance by my DM to modify my human Ranger level 7 character build to qualify for Swift Hunter. I'm trying to keep the same theme and back-story, this requires (a) two-weapon combat style (Longswords), (b) taking Assassin ASAP, (c) qualifying for Dragon Disciple (DgD)

The "best" I've come up with so far is:

Rgr 1 Arcane Hunter - FE(Arcanists) Feats: Weapon-Focus(Longsword) & Improved Bucker Defense [CW] - Mithral Buckler (masterwork)
Rgr 2 Two-Weapon Combat style (TWF) - 2x +1 Longswords
Sct 1 Feat: Oversized TWF [CAd]
Sct 2 Atr Bump: Str +1
Sct 3 gained 40ft movement - purchased Skirmisher's Boots
Sct 4 2nd FE(Human) Bonus feat: Swift Hunter; Feat: Monkey Grip [CW] - purchased 2x Large Longswords (masterwork) for 2d6 damage vs. 1d8
Rgr 3 BAB 6/1

This is where we are in our game - its 3.5 rules (not 3.5e or 4th edition) all supplements allowed.
I've used my skills to qualify the character for Assassin and I'm attempting to kill someone for my final Assassin requirement, which I expect to take at the next level – which will be the first opportunity to do so as we take long trips out of town and can only level in classes we already have when not in town. The Assassin will qualify as the arcane caster for the DgD class later.

So my tactical question is class sequence for the next three levels (8 – 10):
Asn 1, Rgr4 (small viper – provides poison from my Assassin), Sct 5 (probably last level of Sct)
Bump Str +1 at 8th for even Str value and increased modifier.
Suggestions / refinements?

Strategically:
Push Rgr to level 15 and 5th FE ASAP, or mix in DgD (at level 14 or above)? Should I dip further into Asn?
What feats to take, and when?
Current thinking is Flay Foe [Champions of Ruin] and Imp Critical(LS) ASAP, and Bane of Enemies, Improved Favored Enemies, and Death of Enemies at 21/24/27.

Any positive criticism and suggestions welcome, thanks.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #209 on: March 08, 2011, 10:49:02 AM »
You really need to think your character through. It's like a big pile of anti-CO paradigms :p I'm assuming that you're interested in optimizing your character, right?

First of all theme/backstory has nothing to do with mechanics. You can be an assassin with single-classed (say, for example, wizard or cleric) builds, just by taking contracts and killing people. You don't have to take levels in the actual class, which is pretty horrid by the way.

Stuff you need to get rid off to be remotely optimized: weapon focus, Monkey Grip, Assassin PrC, Dragon Disciple PrC.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #210 on: March 08, 2011, 12:36:02 PM »
Dictuum is right. Assassin and Dragon disciple are horrible fits for a Swift Hunter. There is simply no synergy whatsoever. Both classes are considered to be severely lacking.

My suggestion: Try to get Mystic Ranger from Dragon mag by your GM, and then take Sword of the Arcane order, which is in... I forget, google. it. It lets you prepare arcane spells in your ranger slots. Then just go straight Mystic Ranger after your 4 Scout levels:

Rngr2/Scout4/Ranger+1

GrahamA

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #211 on: March 08, 2011, 09:38:03 PM »
Thanks for the responses. Let me just say a couple of things: (a) my DM is very clear on the rules we’re using – I may not have been clear enough – Dragon Mag not available (b) I’m making changes to my character at level 7 such that it’s as similar to its original; (c) my DM wanted an Assassin (class) in the group and I volunteered.

So having said that:
(a)   I already took Weapon Focus(LS) and Monkey Grip – doesn’t mean I have to make use of them but it would be a complete waste of feats now if I didn’t  :banghead
(b)   I’m not committed to DgD, but I really like the stats boosts, and I could take this after I get to Rgr15/Sct5 combination
(c)   Sword of the Arcane Order is in Champions of Valor, but without Mystic Ranger it’s not available to me. I do have Spell Compendium available and there are some good Ranger spells in there.

Brainpiercing; you think I should forego Sct 5? I’ve seen a lot of discussion on Rgr 16/Sct 4 vs. Rgr 15/Sct 5. Either way you’re both advising the minimum levels in Assassin.
What about the feats I have left before reaching Epic at 21? Given my (apparently inefficient) existing choices, how best to recover?

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #212 on: March 08, 2011, 11:21:44 PM »
A lot of people even forego the Scout bonus feat at 4. I like to take that, personally. I'm not sure about Scout 5.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #213 on: March 08, 2011, 11:27:04 PM »
I like scout 5 because you can take different ACFs and still have evasion later. That's only if you can't dip cleric though: Ranger 15/Scout 4/Cloistered Cleric 1 and travel devotion is a must for any swift hunter build, especially if you are melee, since right now you do not have a way of full-attacking and applying your skirmish damage to your attacks. You can only skirmish with a single attack.
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Socko525

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #214 on: March 26, 2011, 07:44:20 PM »
I like scout 5 because you can take different ACFs and still have evasion later. That's only if you can't dip cleric though: Ranger 15/Scout 4/Cloistered Cleric 1 and travel devotion is a must for any swift hunter build, especially if you are melee, since right now you do not have a way of full-attacking and applying your skirmish damage to your attacks. You can only skirmish with a single attack.

So if I were to make a swift hunter and dip in cloistered cleric for travel devotion, would you recommend going against Scout 5 for evasion? I was thinking Scout 5/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ranger 14. I'd still have 17 BAB, but I'd lose some ranger spells.

Also what are your thoughts on the Ranged Skirmisher feat from Dragon 346(I think). It requires you to have far shot which is other wasted, but it allows you to apply skirmish damage out to 60' as opposed to 30'. I was thinking of doing this, but I don't know if it's worth wasting a feat on far shot.

Thanks!

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #215 on: March 26, 2011, 10:46:53 PM »
The best bet to increase ranged base damage (+1/2 dex) and skirmish range to 60 feet is Crossbow Sniper from... I forget, google it, and apply it to an +1 Aptitude (from ToB) Greatbow , or be a Raptoran and use an aptitude footbow/glide combo for certain skirmish. The prereq is arguably even more crappy (wf crossbow), but I would use hand crossbow mastery from DotU, which will give you some benefits, and you can also apply it to the bow.
And finally, a dip of Targetteer Figher or the H&R fighter will also nicely up your damage.

If you are using Dragon anyway, use Mystic Ranger, too. You only need to get to around level 12 or so for the best Ranger spells, anything after that is less appealing. Make sure ranger spells from supplements count though.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #216 on: May 26, 2011, 12:14:22 PM »
For the magic items: Bracers of the Hunter (Secrets of Xen'Drik). +1d6 Skirmish damage, +2 Init, +5 Hide.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #217 on: May 27, 2011, 12:04:17 PM »
For the magic items: Bracers of the Hunter (Secrets of Xen'Drik). +1d6 Skirmish damage, +2 Init, +5 Hide.
Nice... unless they are too expensive.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #218 on: May 27, 2011, 02:06:21 PM »
For the magic items: Bracers of the Hunter (Secrets of Xen'Drik). +1d6 Skirmish damage, +2 Init, +5 Hide.
Nice... unless they are too expensive.

8.5K. Not exactly cheap for a low-level character, but mid-level ones can afford them.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Ithiliond

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #219 on: June 29, 2011, 08:14:06 PM »
Hi, I'd like Dictum to know that I've just traduced his guide into italian to my forum (here's the link; of course he got credit for it), as well as added my PoV and consideration, and adding some new material, including some from Dragon Magazines and ToB.
If you (Dictum) want (it seems like you don't have time/mind to even fix the BB code, so i'm asking), i can try to sum up the changes from your version (new features as well as things i found to be misjudged).
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