Author Topic: The Swift Hunter's Handbook  (Read 169691 times)

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SylvanPrincess

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #180 on: January 19, 2011, 09:48:30 AM »
im working on a swift hunter/swift ambusher build. would basically be ranger 4/scout 3/rogue 13. if i can have the 2 feats count with eachother is the issue though -would my levels add to have skirmish as a lev 20 scout? skirmish as a lev 7 scout and a lev 16 scout? im confused here. if it works the way i figured it did, it would have 5d6 skirmish and 7d6 sneak attack. with the distracting attack alternate class feature, it seems itd be able to deal sneak attack every time. i would want to be a bow user. also want to use the variant urban ranger, with the spell-less variant to gain a bonus feat at level 4. whadya think?

ok, i think i read it wrong and i cant get the flank bonus myself with distracting attack. right or wrong?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:01:28 AM by SylvanPrincess »

Shiki

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #181 on: January 19, 2011, 12:08:06 PM »
Quote from: Distracting Attack
[...]whenever you hit an enemy with a weapon attack (wether melee or ranged), that enemy is considered flanked by you for the purpose of abjudicating your allies' attack.[...]

Bolded part confirms your doubt.
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SylvanPrincess

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #182 on: January 19, 2011, 07:42:56 PM »
Quote from: Distracting Attack
[...]whenever you hit an enemy with a weapon attack (wether melee or ranged), that enemy is considered flanked by you for the purpose of abjudicating your allies' attack.[...]

Bolded part confirms your doubt.

rats! what about the way the 2 feats interact to determine skirmish ?

Shiki

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #183 on: January 19, 2011, 08:19:47 PM »
I'd say you'd count as both Scout 7 and Scout 16, but they wouldn't add to each other because you can only have one effective level in something, so you'll Skirmish as a 16th level Scout. But really, I'm not sure on this one.
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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #184 on: January 19, 2011, 10:08:28 PM »
I'd say you'd count as both Scout 7 and Scout 16, but they wouldn't add to each other because you can only have one effective level in something, so you'll Skirmish as a 16th level Scout. But really, I'm not sure on this one.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why tri-class builds that focus on a single class feature are a headache.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Garryl

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #185 on: January 19, 2011, 11:56:02 PM »
im working on a swift hunter/swift ambusher build. would basically be ranger 4/scout 3/rogue 13. if i can have the 2 feats count with eachother is the issue though -would my levels add to have skirmish as a lev 20 scout? skirmish as a lev 7 scout and a lev 16 scout? im confused here. if it works the way i figured it did, it would have 5d6 skirmish and 7d6 sneak attack. with the distracting attack alternate class feature, it seems itd be able to deal sneak attack every time. i would want to be a bow user. also want to use the variant urban ranger, with the spell-less variant to gain a bonus feat at level 4. whadya think?

ok, i think i read it wrong and i cant get the flank bonus myself with distracting attack. right or wrong?

You would be working as a level 20 Scout for Skirmish (3 Scout + 4 Ranger + 13 Rogue). Both of Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher state that they let your Ranger/Rogue levels stack with your Scout levels to determine your Skirmish bonuses. Thus, your effective level for skirmishing is the sum of all three classes, since all three of them stack to determine your effective Scout level.
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Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #186 on: January 20, 2011, 12:08:05 AM »
im working on a swift hunter/swift ambusher build. would basically be ranger 4/scout 3/rogue 13. if i can have the 2 feats count with eachother is the issue though -would my levels add to have skirmish as a lev 20 scout? skirmish as a lev 7 scout and a lev 16 scout? im confused here. if it works the way i figured it did, it would have 5d6 skirmish and 7d6 sneak attack. with the distracting attack alternate class feature, it seems itd be able to deal sneak attack every time. i would want to be a bow user. also want to use the variant urban ranger, with the spell-less variant to gain a bonus feat at level 4. whadya think?

ok, i think i read it wrong and i cant get the flank bonus myself with distracting attack. right or wrong?

You would be working as a level 20 Scout for Skirmish (3 Scout + 4 Ranger + 13 Rogue). Both of Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher state that they let your Ranger/Rogue levels stack with your Scout levels to determine your Skirmish bonuses. Thus, your effective level for skirmishing is the sum of all three classes, since all three of them stack to determine your effective Scout level.
I would still rather be a Mystic Ranger/Swift Hunter than that, and get some sneak-attack from spells.

The problem with the Rogue is... well, it's a rogue. And in any case, why would you need 4 levels or Ranger? It seems either you take Ranger to 5 for a worthwhile class feature, or drop it at 2, or even 1. Unless you take Moonwarded Ranger, but you're probably already pretty MAD. So Ranger 2/Scout4/Rogue rest. Still gets you two favoured enemies, combat style, bonus feat from Scout4 and a ton of skirmish/sneak. You still need a way to get lots of attacks that can actually hit something.

Yuukale

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #187 on: January 20, 2011, 12:35:39 AM »
Is there any relatively easy way to always (or almost always) get to use your sneak attack + skirmish dmg (any feat or item property, that is...)

by the way, this swift hunter/swift ambusher, is it worth to have only 3 iterative attacks, instead of 4 ? It outdmgs but, again, is the heavy reliance on the opponent being flat-footed worth it or a viable option?


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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #188 on: January 20, 2011, 12:55:10 AM »
Ring of Blink. You lose a couple of attacks per round but if you sneak attack it might be worth it.

moraelynne

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #189 on: January 21, 2011, 11:58:56 AM »
For a Swift Ambushing Hunter I find the best blend to be Rngr 1, Rog 1, Scout 18. With the way the feats interact you have 20 levels of skirmish, and 19 each of sneak attack and favored enemy.

Insert preferred feat based cheese to get iterative skirmish attacks, and make sure you flank your opponents.


Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #190 on: January 21, 2011, 12:19:50 PM »
For a Swift Ambushing Hunter I find the best blend to be Rngr 1, Rog 1, Scout 18. With the way the feats interact you have 20 levels of skirmish, and 19 each of sneak attack and favored enemy.

Damn now I feel stupid :)

I think this is best paired with a lot of natural weapons and multiattack. So... without using any levels, how would you do that? Alter self?

Pimpforged

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #191 on: January 21, 2011, 06:53:35 PM »
For a Swift Ambushing Hunter I find the best blend to be Rngr 1, Rog 1, Scout 18. With the way the feats interact you have 20 levels of skirmish, and 19 each of sneak attack and favored enemy.

How? Swift Amusher only adds rogue + scout for skirmish and lets you use your combined sneak attack + Skirmish dmg to qualify for ambush feats.

Yuukale

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #192 on: January 21, 2011, 08:21:09 PM »
Hey guys, Swift Ambusher doesn't let the scout continue with sneak attack, it only makes the scout able to take ambush feats. For Sneak attack progression you need rogue levels, instead of scout. The rogue progresses the S.A by itself and the Skirmish with the feat.

As for ranger 1, hell, I don't think a couple of favored enemies justify taking swift hunter with only 1 Ranger level, unless you're planning on exploiting Fav. Enemy feats (on the feat starved swift-xxx) the ranger on swift hunter is good at least for 2 level dip and free rapid shot

Btw, nowadays I take into account a 1-level dip in (cloistered) Cleric for this build as a MUST - Worshipping Solonor Thelandira/Shevarash OR Sehanine Moonbow (so I get Elf and War/Travel domains).

Pimpforged

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #193 on: January 21, 2011, 08:42:00 PM »
Quote from: Distracting Attack
[...]whenever you hit an enemy with a weapon attack (wether melee or ranged), that enemy is considered flanked by you for the purpose of abjudicating your allies' attack.[...]

Bolded part confirms your doubt.

rats! what about the way the 2 feats interact to determine skirmish ?

Solution: Take leadership and get a cohort who has lvls of ranger and let them distracting attack for you. Even better give him levels in rogue as well as ranger so that you do the same for him. Scout too so he gets skirmish. Basically make him a lower lvl version of you.

SylvanPrincess

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #194 on: January 24, 2011, 06:54:54 PM »
4 levels of ranger was to get both distracting attack, and a bonus feat, because i am mixing 3(?)variants/acf, the urban ranger, the no-spells ranger (extra feat at lev 4), and the no-companion ranger(distracting attack at lev 4). i am trying to build a character with a modern feel, because i am trying to create kara thrace (starbuck) who is stuck in a more primitive world.

my first thought was to just do this build i put together awhile back, rogue/swash/scout, but this ambushing build is an attempt as an alt option.

builld spoiler (14d6 precision!)
[spoiler]this may have been done before, but here it is for your perusal.

wanted to combine 3 classes and 2 of the class level stacking feats from CS, and CA. daring outlaw, and swift ambusher.

prereqs: grace +1, sneak attack 2d6
daring outlaw lets you combine your rogue and swashbuckler levels for the purpose of determining your ref save bonus from grace, your dodge bonus (swash), and your sneak attack damage progression.

prereqs: skirmish 1d6/1 AC, sneak attack 1d6
swift ambusher lets you combine your rogue and scout levels for the purpose of determining your damage and ac bonus from skirmish, as well as qualifying for ambush feats (adds your sneak attack die and your skirmish die to determine this)

the build i suggest is rogue 14/swashbuckler 3/scout 3
combined class levels are rogue 14, swashbuckler 17, scout 17

therefore (pretty sure i did this correctly)...

(from combing the 2 feats)
-sneak attack: 9d6 (as level 17 rogue)
-skirmish: 5d6/4 AC (as level 17 scout)
-dodge bonus: +3 (as a level 17 swashbuckler)
-grace: +2 (as a level 17 swashbuckler)

(the rest)
-BAB: 15
-saves: +9/+15/+6 (with grace +2, battle fortitude +1)
-skills: 8 + int mod for 17 levels, 4 + int mod for 3
-Int to damage (swash)
-2 rogue special abilities (not bad, could be feats used to take ambush feats)
-evasion
-uncanny dodge (full)
-trap sense +4
-weapon finesse
-trapfinding
-fast movement +10ft
-trackless step
-battle fortitude +1 (fort save and initiative)

only problem i see is that you qualify for daring outlaw at level 6, and them swift ambusher at level 9. might seem a bit too high to get them, but daring outlaw at level 6 gives you 3d6 sneak, and scout at level 7 puts it up to 4d6 (i know you cant always do both, but...)...4d6 at level 7 is the same as rogue 20, and at level 9 its 5d6, level 10 its 6d6, level 12 its 9d6, level 14 its 10d6 (when a rogue20 would get 10d6 at level 19). this build gets 14d6 at level 20. that is, if all my math is correct....[/spoiler]

Quote
"Solution: Take leadership and get a cohort who has lvls of ranger and let them distracting attack for you. Even better give him levels in rogue as well as ranger so that you do the same for him. Scout too so he gets skirmish. Basically make him a lower lvl version of you."

leadership isnt allowed i think


ive decided (i think) to use the riposte scout variant class feature found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a
the dm has ruled that i can use riposte to qualify for feats that require a min skirmish. any thought on how riposte can be exploited in a swift build?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 02:21:48 AM by SylvanPrincess »

Yuukale

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #195 on: February 22, 2011, 09:27:09 AM »
Ring of Blink. You lose a couple of attacks per round but if you sneak attack it might be worth it.

why do I lose attacks per round? Provided that my target can't see ethereal beings, all my attacks are considered sneak attacks for my foe will be denied dex to ac.

Even if I needed a standard action to activate the ring, it would grant me either unlimited blink until deactivation or blink for 7 rounds (as it has a cl of 7).

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #196 on: February 22, 2011, 08:03:24 PM »
Whiling blinking your own attacks have a 20% miss chance though, so eventually you will miss.
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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #197 on: February 22, 2011, 08:30:44 PM »
IIRC a pierce magical concealment feat, works great to avoid the miss chance due a ring of blinking

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #198 on: February 22, 2011, 09:04:23 PM »
IIRC a pierce magical concealment feat, works great to avoid the miss chance due a ring of blinking
Burning one of your feats for one that a)didn't make the list of useful feats for Swift Hunter to begin with and 2) is being taken just so you can use your stuff?  Sounds like a dubious benefit in general.
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Yuukale

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #199 on: February 22, 2011, 09:39:14 PM »
a good solution would be a ring of improved blink (this spell is on unnaproachable east) - it's a 5th level spell and you don't have the miss chance while blinking.

although, that would lead to the dangerous question: how much would it cost ?