Author Topic: The Swift Hunter's Handbook  (Read 171983 times)

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Havok4

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #120 on: March 21, 2010, 07:12:02 AM »
You cannot use skirmish while mounted due to the complete adventurer errata.

S_Jerusalem

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #121 on: March 21, 2010, 07:51:32 AM »
Oh... Well, back to the cheese, then. Thanks.

bearsarebrown

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #122 on: March 21, 2010, 08:36:56 AM »
Or ignore the errata because it's stupid.

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #123 on: March 21, 2010, 12:58:38 PM »
Or ignore the errata because it's stupid.
Certainy worth a thought....

I still think the best way to get Skirmish without Travel Devotion is with a Totemist dip.

deuxhero

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #124 on: March 22, 2010, 12:10:36 AM »
We do ignore CP for that very reason...

Deathcharge01

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2010, 08:12:55 AM »
I'm in the process of building one of these, and with the help of these boards, I found a very neat feat that works well with the 1 level dip of Warblade for activating skirmish/improved skirmish. Leap of the Heavens(PHII pg80) [When making a Jump check, the DC for the check doesn’t double if you fail to move 20 feet in a straight line prior to jumping] Thus with this, all one needs is a jump check of 20 to auto pass on activating skirmish/improved skirmish with the 'Sudden Leap' maneuver. Thoughts?
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Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2010, 10:35:04 AM »
I'm in the process of building one of these, and with the help of these boards, I found a very neat feat that works well with the 1 level dip of Warblade for activating skirmish/improved skirmish. Leap of the Heavens(PHII pg80) [When making a Jump check, the DC for the check doesn’t double if you fail to move 20 feet in a straight line prior to jumping] Thus with this, all one needs is a jump check of 20 to auto pass on activating skirmish/improved skirmish with the 'Sudden Leap' maneuver. Thoughts?
It only works once every other round, so... IMHO Travel Devotion and the Extra Turning feat (For instance via a Cleric dip with the Undeath domain) still wins.

Deathcharge01

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2010, 06:02:48 PM »
I'm in the process of building one of these, and with the help of these boards, I found a very neat feat that works well with the 1 level dip of Warblade for activating skirmish/improved skirmish. Leap of the Heavens(PHII pg80) [When making a Jump check, the DC for the check doesn’t double if you fail to move 20 feet in a straight line prior to jumping] Thus with this, all one needs is a jump check of 20 to auto pass on activating skirmish/improved skirmish with the 'Sudden Leap' maneuver. Thoughts?
It only works once every other round, so... IMHO Travel Devotion and the Extra Turning feat (For instance via a Cleric dip with the Undeath domain) still wins.

I'd love to dip a cleric or any caster for that matter, but there are some problems associated with that, the main one being that any evil DM (oh wait, that's all of them) will 'force' you to use up that daily allotment of turning checks then drop a BBG, or just send more encounters. I'd take skirmish every 2 rounds with no daily limit anytime.
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Akalsaris

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2010, 06:33:04 PM »
You can do what I did and take Travel Devotion as a normal feat, you know.  1/day for 10 rounds is enough for a boss fight, maybe 2 short fights if you really rush. 

As I said earlier, a belt of battle (MIC), chronocharm of travel (MIC), and an item of swift leap (warblade/swordsage 1 maneuver), are all good items for a swift hunter.  Warblade 1 isn't a bad dip by any stretch though - it beats a cleric dip in HD and BAB, and gives a mobile ability and some decently useful maneuvers.

By the way, wasn't there a Dragon magazine issue with a mounted scout variant?  Or was that a mounted ranger?

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #129 on: March 24, 2010, 07:37:42 PM »
One thing to note: If you can use LA buyoff then a Goliath offers the same thing as Leap of the Heavens, and MORE. Even without buyoff it's a staple race. While it does seem initially strange to use one for a Swift Hunter, it's actually not so strange - more Str=more damage. Powerful build is also nice to use larger weapons. Mountain movement ensures skirmish even on hills. And you can qualify for Knockback, which is a VERY good feat, even though not quite as useful for Swift Hunters.

Now the deal with Travel devotion: It works for 1 minute. And by the CC rules to get more uses you have to permanently expend your turn attempts, 2 per additional daily use, IIRC. With +1 Cha and 3 base attempts that's three uses per day, i.e. 3 fights. Add extra turning for two more. At that point it's very unlikely you'll run out, and you can get it all from one level of (cloistered) cleric. (Undeath and Travel domains.)

There is also a funny interaction between permanently expending turn attempts and items that grant temporary Cha bonuses - or even direct turn attempts. For instance, borrow a cloak of Cha +4, and you gain 2 turns. Now expend those permanently. (You're already at 0, because all the others are already gone.) And then give back the cloak. You can't get a negative number, nor can those expended turns be revoked, because there are no more causality checks involved. (I guess this isn't likely to work in a real game, not more than once at least, but... IMHO it's RAW.)

Of course, the much better way is just convincing your DM to change that rule from permanently expending to just expending per use.

IMHO WoTC did the giant chicken with the mounted scout: They just didn't want it to happen, because you always do ranged full-attacks while mounted. And I think they wanted skirmish to be a single-attack mechanic, so that the painful inefficiency of the main combat character classes at dealing damage didn't become even more obvious.

Risada

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #130 on: March 25, 2010, 01:35:59 PM »
Of course, the much better way is just convincing your DM to change that rule from permanently expending to just expending per use.

I may be wrong, but that's what was changed in the Complete Champion Errata, right?

Fake Edit: Just as I thought.... here is some discussion on the CC errata

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #131 on: March 25, 2010, 03:24:11 PM »
Of course, the much better way is just convincing your DM to change that rule from permanently expending to just expending per use.

I may be wrong, but that's what was changed in the Complete Champion Errata, right?

Fake Edit: Just as I thought.... here is some discussion on the CC errata
Right you are, I missed that. And I had actually read that thread before and posted in it....

kinv

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #132 on: May 31, 2010, 09:02:24 PM »
So I decided I want to go w/ a Swift Hunter build on my new character but I've already started and I'm a lvl 2 ranger, can I still make a Swift hunter? or am I boned?

snakeman830

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #133 on: May 31, 2010, 10:04:32 PM »
Of course you can still make Swift Hunter.  You just need a few levels in Scout now.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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kinv

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #134 on: May 31, 2010, 10:42:22 PM »
Of course you can still make Swift Hunter.  You just need a few levels in Scout now.
Just making sure I didn't lose out on some optimization, is there a specific lvl I should try and switch back and forth? I'm lvl 2 atm w/ enough xp to hit 3.

Brainpiercing

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #135 on: June 01, 2010, 12:01:30 AM »
Of course you can still make Swift Hunter.  You just need a few levels in Scout now.
Just making sure I didn't lose out on some optimization, is there a specific lvl I should try and switch back and forth? I'm lvl 2 atm w/ enough xp to hit 3.
Like... NOW. You switch to scout and take that until Scout 3 or 4, depending on whether you want the bonus feat. At level 6 you take the Swift Hunter feat, and possibly Improved Skirmish as the bonus feat. And then you go back to Ranger and never look back.
You only boned because you didn't take Mystic Ranger. IF you didn't take Mystic Ranger.

kinv

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #136 on: June 01, 2010, 04:56:41 AM »
Of course you can still make Swift Hunter.  You just need a few levels in Scout now.
Just making sure I didn't lose out on some optimization, is there a specific lvl I should try and switch back and forth? I'm lvl 2 atm w/ enough xp to hit 3.
Like... NOW. You switch to scout and take that until Scout 3 or 4, depending on whether you want the bonus feat. At level 6 you take the Swift Hunter feat, and possibly Improved Skirmish as the bonus feat. And then you go back to Ranger and never look back.
You only boned because you didn't take Mystic Ranger. IF you didn't take Mystic Ranger.
What are the advantages of mystic ranger over a normal ranger? Also So I go to level 3 as a scout and continue to lvl 6, take swift hunter then switch back to ranger till 20?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 04:59:49 AM by kinv »

snakeman830

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #137 on: June 01, 2010, 05:10:20 AM »
IIRC, Mystic Ranger is casting 1-20, getting up to 5th level Wizard spells.  I could be wrong on some of those points as I have yet to actually see it in the book.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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That explains so much about my life.
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Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
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If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

kinv

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #138 on: June 01, 2010, 06:58:40 AM »
IIRC, Mystic Ranger is casting 1-20, getting up to 5th level Wizard spells.  I could be wrong on some of those points as I have yet to actually see it in the book.
is there a disadvantage to starting out as a ranger like I did then going scout?

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Swift Hunter's Handbook
« Reply #139 on: June 01, 2010, 08:18:01 AM »
You lose skills. Scout has 8+int, ranger has 6+int. So you lost 8 skill points at first level.

Take 4 scout levels, then a cloistered cleric dip then full ranger.
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