Author Topic: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?  (Read 1415 times)

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Amechra

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How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« on: November 30, 2010, 04:18:24 AM »
A research project, if you will.

Imagine, if you will, a manifester with the ability to create pseudospell slots; i.e., it would, in the morning, spend 1 pp for a 1st level slot, 3 pp for a 2nd level slot, etc... This would allow you to apply metamagic to powers.

Now, answer the opening question, if you will.

Now, imagine this addition: this class has the ability to, instead of learning a new power, learn a spell that would work in a similar way to how a StP Erudite "casts" spells. Assume the class has a very limited number of powers known, on the order of ~20 at level 20.

Now, answer the above question once more, please.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

PhaedrusXY

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 04:31:03 AM »
Well, it can't break the "metamagic cap". So with no more details than that, we can say that it isn't as powerful as a DMM cleric or an Incantatrix.

What spell lists is it limited to? And can it increase its powers known somehow? (Psychic Chirgury should work, at least) It probably winds up playing like a StP Erudite, with a strict DM interpretation of their "unique powers known".
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Amechra

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 04:49:48 AM »
I'm asking because I have a homebrew class I am thinking of fleshing out, and I want to make sure that it won't result in Bad Stuff.

There wouldn't be a Unique Powers per Day limit. What there would be is a limited number of powers known. And probably a limit on how much of your PP you can tie up into slots.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

OblivionSmurf83

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 06:35:05 AM »
Can the spell slots qualify you for prestige classes? Can this caster qualify for Incantatrix?

Sobolev

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 06:53:55 AM »
Can the spell slots qualify you for prestige classes? Can this caster qualify for Incantatrix?

More importantly, can you burn all of your power points at the beginning of the day to make a 9th level spell slot at level 1?  I don't know if it's even good, but if there's something that requires Knowledge X 4 Ranks and ability to cast spells of level blah blah, do you just take that thing that makes you a Wizard (It's a feat, can't think of the name, gives you a spellbook with three spells Magical Training maybe?), take Heighten Spell as your Human bonus feat and qualify for it at level 1?  

Sample Build
Archivist 1/Mystery Class 1/Skypledged 9

I don't even know if this matters, but you just copy Summon Monster IV in to your book, form a slot for it, qualify at level 1 of Mystery Class (assuming you have enough PP, lazy right now, just theorycrafting) and now you can form spellslots for your Spellpool.  I only used Archivist so I'd have Summon Monster 4, it's debatable if your deity would grant you the spell if you have the slot (I don't know why they wouldn't) so that could be Cleric, and that would be pretty dumb.  I don't even know what you do after that, you have level 9 divine spells at ECL 11, so I think you just get more power points and get cool psionic stuff?  *Shrug* Who knows, I think I'd be happy with that as is myself.

Edit: Combine with those items that store power points?  Get Leadership with someone who has a psionic class with a lot of points who recharges those for you?  Again, some of this (maybe all of it) might not even work, I'm just throwing things and seeing what sticks (since that's what I do when I try to make something new)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 06:57:35 AM by Sobolev »
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

Amechra

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 12:08:27 AM »
Thanks for your questioning Sobolev; it helps me balance stuff.

My plan is to make it something along the order of:

1. You can only tie up a number of PP into slots equal to three times your level, so at 1st level, you can only invest 3 pp in all into slots.
2. You can only create a slot of a level equal to the highest level spell slot a straight sorceror would have at that level.

Does that look fair? Or does it look too weak? I'm aiming sorta tier 3 with this, maybe verging towards a higher tier.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Sobolev

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 02:46:41 AM »
Thanks for your questioning Sobolev; it helps me balance stuff.
No problem, just I admit I didn't think any of it all the way through, just primary reactions.

1. You can only tie up a number of PP into slots equal to three times your level, so at 1st level, you can only invest 3 pp in all into slots.
I don't know if this is necessary, or why three times is the magic number.  The second thing is more the problem I think, maybe it's a bigger deal than I think, not sure.

2. You can only create a slot of a level equal to the highest level spell slot a straight sorceror would have at that level.
I think this is the more important problem, and I think this would be fine.  Even if you just made the highest level spell slot they can form be the highest level power you can manifest, I think that would be fine.

Does that look fair? Or does it look too weak? I'm aiming sorta tier 3 with this, maybe verging towards a higher tier.
Something else to consider to resolve my whole problem is making it clear what the slot can be used for.  I mean in all reality if it's a Mystery Class Slot, I can't really fill it with an Archivist spell, it would have to be filled with Mystery Class spells.  Since they have none, I think what you're getting at is "preparing" a Power with a metamagic feat.  If you spell that out in the class feature, maybe none of this is a problem.  I still think you shouldn't be able to form a spell level that you can't manifest a power at otherwise we're Heightening a power in order to qualify (though I can't think of any psionic PrCs that work that way).  
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 02:48:15 AM by Sobolev »
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Quote from: Negative Zero on November 04, 2009, 02:16:14 AM
In my humble opinion, CO is haberdashery. Some say we're mad, but we can all agree we're hatters. Yes, we have potential to make very sophisticated hats, very fancy hats, be they dark or light. But the truth is that the color of the hat does not come from the group of us - our community doesn't directly produce hats. We simply give average head circumferences, list current fashion trends, and point out some shiny, obscure baubles to add to the latest hat line.

Amechra

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Re: How powerful would a class with this theoretical mechanic be?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 03:47:30 AM »
I'm actually planning to give a handful of spells to these guys, which they are able to either cast or manifest. They can also cast or manifest their powers.

In essence, they can treat psionics as vancian magic or vancian magic as psionics.

Oh, and I picked 3 times because I felt that you should always have the ability to "cast" 3 of your highest level slots in a day. Also, I like the number three.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing