Author Topic: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs  (Read 6194 times)

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RobbyPants

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 03:36:43 PM »
Well, forgetting about potions and scrolls for the time being, how workable is it?
It screams for the players to dig the books for  items with as much bonus cramped in one as possible, since you can only craft one by level. "Fun" items are even less likely to be crafted, because everybody is too busy geting those circlets of rapid casting, metamagic rod and other powerfull support items that don't give direct bonus. On the other hand, those overcosted "fluff items" with lots of things in one become a lot more desirable. Complete madness if merging items rules are allowed.

Otherwise, I may give Veekie's spirit point thread a look.  Does anyone have a link?
Veekie never made a thread, just a post here.
Yeah.  The other problem is: if the PCs aren't going to be troubled to craft a Handysack, then why would an NPC?  So, why would they exist.  I'm starting to think that arbitrary, draconian one-per-level limit isn't going to work.  So, how do I keep them rare but keep PCs on track?

And thanks for the link.  That's a solid idea, all in all, although you still end up with people making crap-tons of plus items out of mundane stuff.  It helps with WBL, but you still get lots of plus items.



Sounds pretty similar to what I'm doing in this game (relevant parts are in the first two posts).

I think a system like this needs the "attunement" rules from the Tomes. Otherwise, you can still break it by finding a giant pile of gold. Higher numbers don't redefine gameplay as much as many of the other magic items (Boots of Flying, etc). Higher numbers just mean you get to play at all.
Maybe the attunement rules could work too, which would largely get rid of the need to have the craft-one-per-level limit.  You could hoard tons of stuff, but you couldn't use it all.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 03:38:27 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 04:34:01 PM »
Toss everyone a weapon of legacy, maybe?
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oslecamo

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2010, 07:16:31 PM »
And thanks for the link.  That's a solid idea, all in all, although you still end up with people making crap-tons of plus items out of mundane stuff.  It helps with WBL, but you still get lots of plus items.

Well, another gamer once proposed a very simple solution. Merge all your trinkets into a few super-items, whitout paying anything extra. So for example your sword also buffs your Str and Agility(sword +belt of giant strenght+gloves of agility in one) while your armor comes with a deflection bonus and resistance bonus included (armor+ring of protection+vest of resistance in one). As you level up upgrade those few items of yours with your spirit points. Pray you don't find anyone specialized in sunder.

Look at the myth excalibur for example. It wasn't just a pretty sharp sword, it shed as much light as thirty torches and provoked a fear effect into oponents, and it's sheath made the wearer invulnerable to pretty much everything. That's a bunch of items rolled into one.

Amechra

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2010, 08:08:48 PM »
Question: If you remove the items, would you also reduce the WBL?

I mean, having only 1/3 the WBL table wealth wouldn't be too bad, would it?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

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RobbyPants

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 11:38:41 PM »
Question: If you remove the items, would you also reduce the WBL?

I mean, having only 1/3 the WBL table wealth wouldn't be too bad, would it?
Well, I'm still hammering this all out, but the original idea was there would be no wealth by level.  Basically, once you had all your essential RNG stuff, the rest is more of horizontal options rather than vertical power.  So, if the DM were stingy on items, while that sucks, you're still on the RNG.  You just have less options.  If the DM is all Monty Haul, then you get a flying carpet and a bag of holding and a hat of disguise and a glove of storing and a ring of whatever and you get my point.

Also, the original idea was to have items be "priceless" so that there was no guarantee that you could just trade gold for them.  The problem with this was my quick-and-dirty one-item-per-level rule, which causes other problems.  I've yet to find any other good way to do this.  If people can craft items, then they aren't really priceless.  I suppose there's always the whole "only epic dudes can craft and the game's not epic", but that's a bit of a cop out.  The closest I've seen to making items priceless is the Tome's Wish economy, but that's not what I'm going for here. ;)
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 11:46:46 PM »
Weapons of legacy are a bit of an intermediary step, since pretty much anyone can make one, but not anyone could use them.
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Amechra

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2010, 12:11:02 AM »
I was asking because I'm working on a low magic, low wealth campaign world, and I'm wondering how low I should cut WBL to be.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Bauglir

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2010, 01:14:16 AM »
Here's what I'd go with for crafting: it's extremely costly, but it's the only way to give your power to somebody else. Honestly, I don't want players crafting magical items as a matter of course; it might come up occasionally, but most campaigns (in my experience) don't have that kind of downtime, and even if they do, Trader Elminster's Magic Emporium is probably not the game you're trying to play. As far as characters making their OWN magic items, I'm happy to let them add special abilities like "Your sword is on fire" or "Your pants make you immune to mind-affecting effects" in the same way that their badassitude lets them add things like "Your sword is extra good at cutting things", by which I mean from the same reserve of Spirit Points or what have you. Have actual magic items stack with the "You are super badass" item effects (means your party still gets happy at finding a +1 sword, even at level 20, if they're all using base masterwork swords).

For actual crafting, maybe have a permanent XP penalty (not, "You lose this much XP" but, "For the purposes of determining your level, your XP total is treated as X lower than it really is; you still gain XP as if you were at the normal level for your actual XP total"). Definitely have a permanent Spirit Point cost, but maybe one that is numerically slightly less than the standard item. Maybe a permanent Con penalty, applied after all other effects, which can reduce you to 0. Stuff you're not allowed to fix, and which matters (the XP cost isn't great for this, since it basically just says "You can craft this many items without worrying"). If you want to be nice, have all the penalties vanish if the item is ever destroyed, and if you want an interesting dynamic have the items cease to function if the creator dies (unless there's some special component or other, typically something requiring a quest to get; this is tough to do while retaining verisimilitude, though, because somebody will inevitably try to set up a town and mine whatever it is).

A PC probably won't do it because the costs for themselves are greater than the benefits, and an adventuring group is small enough and ideally evenly powerful enough that redistributing magical power isn't going to be a tactical benefit; an NPC might do it occasionally, whether because they're a Court Mage who is able to leave a cushy lifestyle in exchange for keeping the Elite Guard magically outfitted, or because an Evil Empire enslaves its mages to graft their life essences onto magical superweapons, or whatever. Stuff that, unless the PCs are running a government, they aren't really going to be doing because they have to go on adventures and thus need those resources for their own personal stuff. Obvious metarequirement is that, regardless of the frequency of casters in adventuring parties, mages are a rare demographic overall, or else the whole thing falls apart again because there's no meaningful limit  on how common magic is. This kind of the same paradigm that seems to exist right now in terms of PC versus NPC crafting, only taken to a greater extreme because the current one only works in Eberron, and even there it's not carried to its logical conclusion.

I never did get a fix for consumables, exactly. The best I came up with was that using a consumable returned its spirit points, but investing spirit points took Significant Downtime, like a 24 hour thing or something. Not really ideal.

All the above rambling probably has significant problems that I haven't noticed, and have probably actually been addressed in the thread, and which I'm forgetting about.
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RobbyPants

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2010, 10:20:19 AM »
Yeah, any crafting system I can think about always does one of two things:

1) It penalizes crafters so much that no PC would ever craft an item, which begs the question: why to NPCs craft these items?  Where do they even come from?

2) You allow crafting, which basically turns some resource (almost always gold unless you arbitrarily set it to be something else like Spirit Points) into items.  This also makes crafting costs predictable, which makes items not be priceless.

The closest thing I've seen to a third option is a cop out that says PCs can't make items but NPCs can (maybe you need to be epic or have divine ranks or something), which does make them priceless.  I suppose I could try to go all AD&D and say that you can make items, but it's heavily DM dependent and you need to go on quests and stuff to get thing like troll blood and shadow essence and purple ice, but that just turns it into DM fiat.  It can be fun, but it becomes a combination of fun for the whole party and a game of DM-may-I?.


So, that being said.  I'm feeling more and more like my arbitrary, draconian rule of one-per-level is a bad idea.  If the PCs can still craft, then they can totally turn gold into carpets of flying, darkskulls, metamagic rods, and stuff.  Sadly, while some of these aren't "plus items", they still give a boost of vertical power.  Letting casters turn gold into metamagic rods, for instance, is a huge boost to power if the DM disregards WBL, so you'd still need a modified WBL chart in this system.  Ugh.

Any ideas?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2010, 12:12:17 PM »
I'd say going the more arbitrary route is probably the best way to handle what you want, unfortunately. Just say magic items can only be manufactured by a wish, epic spell, divine power, and/or specific components for a specific item. I could see a whole game about some guy wanting a magic carpet and having to collect silk from a frost worm, get the elves of snutyvale to to weave it into a rug, have it blessed by a cleric of Wright the god of air, and then finally sit it in the tomb of a noble Djinni for a month to absorb the magical properties. The biggest thing is that the player(s) and DM need to sit down and agree as to what it will take before the party starts questing for it all. Then you could essentially have a notebook that is nothing but magical crafting recipes to use for future games.
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Bozwevial

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2010, 12:45:27 PM »
So, that being said.  I'm feeling more and more like my arbitrary, draconian rule of one-per-level is a bad idea.  If the PCs can still craft, then they can totally turn gold into carpets of flying, darkskulls, metamagic rods, and stuff.  Sadly, while some of these aren't "plus items", they still give a boost of vertical power.  Letting casters turn gold into metamagic rods, for instance, is a huge boost to power if the DM disregards WBL, so you'd still need a modified WBL chart in this system.  Ugh.
Crafting items takes a significant amount of magical energy and is somewhat time-consuming. Breaking the one item per level rule is reserved for extremely lengthy periods of downtime or NPCs--in either situation, you're using up more than your surplus magical energy to craft the items, something that would handicap adventurers. So you can still have a sweatshop full of wizards making Bags of Holding, if you want, and if you have a year or two off between adventures you can probably go ahead and make more than a single item.

That sound like a reasonable excuse?

RobbyPants

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2010, 01:59:34 PM »
@Archangel
Yeah, I always liked that 2E approach.  It would certainly curtail how many items are out there because you have to go adventuring to make them.  PCs would likely either be the biggest crafters or at least be the biggest suppliers of materials. 

"Here you go.  One pound of troll fingernails."

If the DM and players are on the same page, it works nicely.  I suppose I could come up with some set of vague rules and the DM just madlib-style fills in the answers.  So it would be like: to make an item of this level you need components form two creatures of that CR and an environmental or plot component of similar challenge, and the DM fills in what the two monster components are (Annis Hag horns and a Rhemorez shell) and the other component (Tears from a Nymph, or whatever).


@Boz
Well, if it's flat downtime, it comes down to DM-may-I.  I mean, if there's nothing pressing (typically DM-induced), then the PCs can totally take five years off in the span of 15 minutes of game time.  Heck, the fighter can just say he's going to do random military stuff from his new strong hold behind the scenes so long as he knows he's getting a sweet sword and armor at the end of the deal for waiting.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2010, 02:06:51 PM »
Actually the downtime may work out. I've never had a character actually age in a game. There were a few games in which my characters had birthdays but we almost never had aging come into play even for humans or shorter lived races.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

RobbyPants

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2010, 09:26:49 PM »
Yeah.  You can go from level 1 to 20 in as few as two months.  You can literally become godlike in a fraction of a season.

I suppose you can argue from your character's standpoint that they don't want to waste two years on a sweet sword, but that kind of temptation is hard for a munchkin player to resist!

"Two years?  For him maybe.  It's only two minutes for me!"
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2010, 05:00:38 AM »
Well, one thing with the spirit points thing, I'd also reduce the amount of WBL available(I think the following accounts for roughly 1/3 of wealth), and give out the following bonuses automatically as characters level:

Weapon Enhancement Bonus - Set to one lower than the highest enhancement bonus weapon you can afford. It would ideally be always 1 point behind Greater Magic Weapon. This applies to all weapons and unarmed strikes wielded by characters(incidentally making TWF fighters have an easier time), but not to touch spells or rays. Off hand this is a +1/4 level bonus starting at level 5(so you'd have +1 at 5th, +2 at 9th, +3 at 13th, etc)

Armor/Shield Enhancement Bonus - Set to one lower than the highest enhancement bonus you can normally afford. It would ideally be always 1 point behind Magic Vestment). This applies to any two pieces of armor, clothing or shield you are wearing and overlaps with Bracers of Armor. Off hand this is +1/4 levels starting at level 4.(so you'd have +1 at 4th, +2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, etc)

Deflection bonus to AC - Set to one lower than the biggest Ring of Protection you can afford. It'd be behind Shield of Faith by a larger gap, but thats alright because of the shorter duration of Deflection bonus spells. Off hand this should be +1/4 levels starting at level 5(so you'd have +1 at 5th, +2 at 9th, +3 at 13th, etc)

Resistance Bonus to Saves - Set to one lower than the best cloak of resistance you can afford. Off hand +1/4 levels starting at level 4(so you'd have +1 at 4th, +2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, etc)

Ability Score Bonus - See above, +1/4 level enhancement across the board to all stats. Yes, this gives odd ability bonuses at first, which funny enough, coincides with level up bonuses. (so you'd have +1 at 4th, +2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, etc)

Basically, the bulk of the bonuses are to melee necessities(in particular, the effective wealth tax on melee types), and the remainder are universally applicable. It does reduce the effective available wealth of spellcasters who generally blow the cash of the weapon they aren't buying on expendables instead. You are allowed to intentionally favor one aspect(by buying the bonus item of that type), however, it costs more for less of a benefit, so it acts as a passive retardant. On the plus side, buff spells of the same type have a smaller impact. The exact numbers and points the increases are gained need some tweaking.
This is meant to be in combination with the Spirit Point system, so that mundane wealth doesn't turn into a Problem.

EDIT: Readability
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 05:04:42 AM by veekie »
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[spoiler]
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[/spoiler]

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RobbyPants

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2010, 09:40:42 AM »
So, with the SP system, you could make an item with a simple +1 and a bunch of other abilities, and have your natural by-level enhancement bonus stack, if you wanted to?

I like a lot of what the spirit point system represents, and having a table like this will hopefully get rid of all the little trinket "plus" items.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
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veekie

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2010, 10:35:53 AM »
Well, for example, if you had a +1 enh from level, you can still make a +2 sword, which overlaps with the +1(and is still within budget). However, as it DOES cost quite a bit for the level to exceed your free bonus, you encourage people to get more interesting items rather than more stat boosters, of which they can afford maybe 1-2.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

PhaedrusXY

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Re: On Wealth-By-Level, Crafting, and XP Costs
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2010, 01:42:17 PM »
Actually the downtime may work out. I've never had a character actually age in a game. There were a few games in which my characters had birthdays but we almost never had aging come into play even for humans or shorter lived races.
I've actually had a character age from ~18 into middle aged in a game, and that even included him getting to "skip" a big number of years in the campaign world due to time-wonkiness. It was a long campaign, both IC and IRL. It started out as 2nd edition, and eventually wound up converted all the way to 3.5. He still only reached 15th level in the end. There was a lot of overland travel and downtime.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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