Author Topic: Dirge Singer Optimisation  (Read 4257 times)

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stranglebat

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Dirge Singer Optimisation
« on: November 25, 2010, 01:15:45 PM »
My wife and i are going into an underdark campaign starting in a few weeks and the DM is known to have a heavy hand in combat IE half golem trolls and such.
We are lvl 6 with 1 flaw allowed all books no dragon magazine and everything is subject to DM approval, which is normally pretty good as he runs high powered campaigns and didnt have a problem with a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold or all the ACFs i took with my changeling conjurer
My wife wants to play a dirge singer with a focus on Music and Supporting with buffs/debuffs

So far we have Bard2/Ghost progression4 (Bard5/Ghost progression4/Dirge Singer5/XXX)

Feats to begin with           
1st Ghostly Grasp
Human Life sense
Obviously need to get requiem for dirge singer asap too

Im not sure what would synergise with Dirge Singer for the remaining class lvls or feats
Master of the unseen hand would work with ghosts

Mixster

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2010, 01:51:50 PM »
I'm unsure why you want 4 levels of ghost progression?

What does level 3 and 4 give you that is better than player class levels?

I'd probably stick with 2 levels where you get extra Cha, and telekinesis.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Endarire

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2010, 09:48:25 PM »
Ghost Savage Progression.

Breaking Down Inspire Courage, Handbook Edition

Consider a Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic 6) which grants you the dragonblood subtype, a bonus feat, and, eventually, Dragonfire Inspiration.

For such a build, I recommend Savage Ghost Progression2/Silverbrow Human Bard4.

Since your DM likes high-powered campaigns, ask him about trading Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting 34).  This way, you can get Song of the Heart and Dragonfire Inspiration at level 3!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 09:52:26 PM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

stranglebat

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2010, 11:41:23 PM »
Thanks ill put these idea's too her, i think the idea of having an extra greatswords worth of damage on the parties attackes will appeal though  ;)




The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 01:23:12 AM »
I'm unsure why you want 4 levels of ghost progression?

What does level 3 and 4 give you that is better than player class levels?
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skydragonknight

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 03:11:15 AM »
Ghost Savage Progression.

Breaking Down Inspire Courage, Handbook Edition

Consider a Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic 6) which grants you the dragonblood subtype, a bonus feat, and, eventually, Dragonfire Inspiration.

For such a build, I recommend Savage Ghost Progression2/Silverbrow Human Bard4.

Since your DM likes high-powered campaigns, ask him about trading Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting 34).  This way, you can get Song of the Heart and Dragonfire Inspiration at level 3!

Doesn't Song of the Heart require Inspire Competence? I swear I see this once a month...
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2010, 04:22:32 AM »
Ghost Savage Progression.

Breaking Down Inspire Courage, Handbook Edition

Consider a Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic 6) which grants you the dragonblood subtype, a bonus feat, and, eventually, Dragonfire Inspiration.

For such a build, I recommend Savage Ghost Progression2/Silverbrow Human Bard4.

Since your DM likes high-powered campaigns, ask him about trading Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting 34).  This way, you can get Song of the Heart and Dragonfire Inspiration at level 3!

Doesn't Song of the Heart require Inspire Competence? I swear I see this once a month...
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
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I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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X-Codes

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 05:08:02 AM »
Bard 5/Dirgesinger 2/Bard +1/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8

Useful Feat: Planar Touchstone to gain access to the Undeath domain.

Having a high Wisdom score (19 recommended, but even as little as 13 makes this worthwhile) and Craft Wonderous Item is also strongly recommended so that you can Spellstitch yourself (this one you should take to the DM, because ghosts are weird in their sometimes-corporeal-sometimes-not existence).  Since you have access to the spells Desecrate and Animate Dead (3rd) from the Undeath Domain, you'll be able to grant those to yourself as SLAs and use them basically at your whimsy.  At that point, you can switch the domain you get from Planar Touchstone if so desired.

Try to start the game with two levels of Ghost bought off, and then buy off the other two as you hit levels 9 and 12.

Song of Sorrow is useful because it's a ridiculously high DC effect that lowers Will saves, which can be combined with Harmonize (Races of Stone) to great effect when combined with another Bardic Music effect or a Will-targeting spell (or Possession).

Song of Bolstering is also amazing because of just how high it boosts Turn Resistance, and as an Undead creature yourself, you're going to want that in spades in case of Clerics.

The rest of the songs are, more or less, garbage.  Songs of Grief and Horror have mediocre effects, but the fact that you have to maintain Song of Grief makes it absolutely not worthwhile, and the limit of 1/day on Song of Horror makes totally neuters it.  That leaves Song of Awakening, which is good in theory, but relies on your DM throwing legal targets at you to be animated, and then mixing them into encounters with monsters powerful enough that you'd actually want to use this ability.  Lots of potential, but not worth two more levels down the drain.

In any case, this setup allows you to utilize Requiem in a bit more comprehensive fashion than just Fascinating/Suggesting encountered undead.  The 6th level of Bard also allows you to ditch Suggestion gained via Bardic Music in favor of Song of the Heart, just in case your DM rules you still need to meet pre-reqs.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 05:16:04 AM by X-Codes »

stranglebat

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2010, 07:38:54 AM »
thanks for the replies, she doesn't want a dragon orientated character so DFI and silverbrow are out

Interest was peaked by X-codes build though, she seemed to also like seeker of song but that class seems like a bit of a trap apart from the dual songs feature, unless anyone has had success with it


Endarire

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 06:41:43 AM »
What about reflavoring Dragonfire Inspiration to make it Elemental Inspiration or Natural Inspiration?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

X-Codes

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Re: Dirge Singer Optimisation
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 05:36:06 PM »
What about reflavoring Dragonfire Inspiration to make it Elemental Inspiration or Natural Inspiration?
Frankly, it still sucks because such damage is negated by level-appropraite energy resistance spells, nevermind monsters with inherent resistances/immunities to fire (and yes, by RAW you're adding Fire damage unless you get the Half-Dragon template or Draconic Heritage).  Only time I support getting DFI is if you are a White Raven initiator, since many of their best maneuvers give morale bonuses to damage anyway.

Weapon damage is the hardest to deal with, since DR from spells scales badly and DR from monsters isn't that hard to bypass.