Author Topic: Artificer Question about Metamagic Item Infusion on Wands, Scepters, and Staves?  (Read 10969 times)

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Gavinfoxx

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Hi there, I am trying to figure out the most efficient way to, RAW, manage to do the Metamagic Item infusion on multiple spells in one single item.

NOTE: I did a big edit with 6th and seventh!

First of all, where are the rules (or the spell, or whatever) that talk about creating partially charged Wands or Staves, if it is possible to do this with a feat or something?

Second, where are the rules that talk about recharging wands or staves, if any, anywhere?

Third, as near as I can tell, it is most efficient to make scepters, since those let you do combined charges for two spells, and don't have a minimum caster level requirement for each of the spells, and can get up to 6th level spells, and are a bit smaller than staves, and automatically have a specific charge price for specific spell levels.

Fourth, it looks like that if you want to combine multiple scepters into one single scepter, you would use the magic item combining rules in the DMG, and simply pay 1.5x the cost of each extra scepter you add after the first.

Fifth, if you CAN recharge these, or start it as partially charged, and then just recharge this as needed, an artificer would be able to use a rod of Extend Spell and a single invoking Metamagic Item, and Persistant Spell feats, to get an arbitrarily large amount of spells persisted, from this uber-scepter, and then just recharge each set of charges when needed, right?

NEW Sixth, is there any way to get past the, "You must put the minimum caster level at the minimum level needed to actually cast the spell; you can't just put every single item at caster level 1 arbitrarily." rule??

Seventh, is there anything wrong with doing this? Have I messed up anywhere? The main idea behind this is to minimize the number of infusions an artificer has to spend, the amount of items he has to carry around, and the amount of money he has to spend, to maximize the number of persisted spells from this trick.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 11:15:35 PM by Gavinfoxx »
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Solo

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You cannot create partially charged wands, as much as some of us would wish, and you can't recharge them either.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Gavinfoxx

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Ah, this talks about a variant rule for recharging wands and stuff...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041130a

It's no cheaper than making a new one, apparently..

And this talks about how to calculate the price of a partially charged item:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041221a

But I'm not sure if those can be made that way to start with... hmm... *checks* Oh, they playtested that option and didn't include it in the system, drat.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 10:14:58 PM by Gavinfoxx »
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Solo

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I advise you to listen to what Skip Williams has to say.  He isn't called the Sage for nothing.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

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I advise you to listen to what Skip Williams has to say.  He isn't called the Sage for nothing.

He's called the Sage because he does so much crack that he hallucinates and people think they're visions.  :rollseyes
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I advise you to listen to what Skip Williams has to say.  He isn't called the Sage for nothing.
I thought the reason he isn't called the Sage is that the Sage was Andy Collins.

Gavinfoxx

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So here is what I've figured... doing this trick requires a lot of money...

As best I can figure, a level 12 artificer is best ad doing this, assuming no flaws, they'd want the following feats:

Human: Apprentice (Craftsman)
Feat1: Extend Spell
Feat3: Persistent Spell
Art4: Extraordinary Artisan
Feat6: Favored in Guild
Art8: Legendary Artisan
Feat9: Craft Scepter
Feat12: Magical Artisan - Scepter

So each scepter would cost about 24% the list price to make, which would help mitigate the 1.5x price to make for combining items, as well as the recharge price, or the fact that the group will have to add new scepters to the item fairly often.  That combined with using low caster level means its possible to do this fairly cheaply.  So guys, do you think its worth it? IS this maybe the best way to get Metamagic Item to do a WHOLE TON of persistable spells cheaply?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 10:55:27 PM by Gavinfoxx »
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Amechra

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You know, I have a thread around here somewhere on how to get 8-9th level spells on a wand- it takes help, but it's useful.

Not what you were asking about, but Metamagic Item reminded me.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9855.0
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

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[/spoiler]

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Gavinfoxx

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I edited my first question thing, with 6 and 7.. is there any way around the floor to caster level?
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Aharon

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You can get a similar effect at 13th level. Buy a Schema of Concurrent Infusions and one of Metamagic Item, and get (CL) persisted spells. If you care, you can get it to practically infinite, but I don't remember the exact way. I think it involved heightening your CL and using the infusion that gives temporary charges to the quasi-wands you create with your Schema of concurrent infusions.
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Widow

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This is going to be messy   :smirk

Hi there, I am trying to figure out the most efficient way to, RAW, manage to do the Metamagic Item infusion on multiple spells in one single item.

NOTE: I did a big edit with 6th and seventh!

First of all, where are the rules (or the spell, or whatever) that talk about creating partially charged Wands or Staves, if it is possible to do this with a feat or something?

You can make staffs that require multiple charges to cast a spell which reduces the cost.  Does not work for wands and spectors have their own rules.

Quote
Second, where are the rules that talk about recharging wands or staves, if any, anywhere?

You are pretty much out of luck.  One of the Epic destinies (Artificer) from the now erased web enhancement let you recharge one charge on an item per day.  This requires you to be level 21 and use your 21, 24, 27, and 30th level epic feats.

Things that are close are the artificer's infusion that grants temporary charges as listed before and there is an artifact in one of the books that attaches to charged items and grants an extra 1000 charges (an artificer would probably kill the item in 10 rounds).

Quote
Third, as near as I can tell, it is most efficient to make scepters, since those let you do combined charges for two spells, and don't have a minimum caster level requirement for each of the spells, and can get up to 6th level spells, and are a bit smaller than staves, and automatically have a specific charge price for specific spell levels.

The minimum caster level is probably still required, plus sceptors automatically take more charges for 5th through 7th level spells (at least in Lost Empires of Faerun, not sure if there is an update).

Quote
Fourth, it looks like that if you want to combine multiple scepters into one single scepter, you would use the magic item combining rules in the DMG, and simply pay 1.5x the cost of each extra scepter you add after the first.

Yep, it should work without a problem.

Quote
Fifth, if you CAN recharge these, or start it as partially charged, and then just recharge this as needed, an artificer would be able to use a rod of Extend Spell and a single invoking Metamagic Item, and Persistant Spell feats, to get an arbitrarily large amount of spells persisted, from this uber-scepter, and then just recharge each set of charges when needed, right?

I don't think you can get away with using an extend metamagic rod to enhance spells cast by equipment, even if it is merged with the equipment.  You could craft an item with the extended version of the spell though.  But again you could use the artificer's infusion to bestow temporary charges on the item in advance (infusion costs xp, so you cannot put it in a schema).

Quote
NEW Sixth, is there any way to get past the, "You must put the minimum caster level at the minimum level needed to actually cast the spell; you can't just put every single item at caster level 1 arbitrarily." rule??

Depends...  Ur-priests, divine crusader, and sublime chords get quicker spell access without the normal caster level.  For instance, an Ur-priest and divine crusader can be built to cast 9th level spells with only a caster level of 9. A sublime chord gets even trickier.  Lets say you had a gloura 7HD+2LA/ Divine bard 3/ Sublime chord 10.  Your sublime chord caster level is equal to sublime chord levels plus levels in one other arcane spell casting class which you don't have.  Now you can cast 4th and 5th level spells with a caster level of 1, 6th at 3, 7th at 5, 8th at 7, and 9th at 9.  These PrC's naturally cast these spells at lower minimum levels so emulate them with an artificer (I know, cheese) or actually play one (you dont need to play that exact sublime chord, just a sublime chord since it is possible it is the minimum).  You can extend the sublime chord to 2nd and 3rd level spells with extra slot and extra spell feats technically.

Quote
Seventh, is there anything wrong with doing this? Have I messed up anywhere? The main idea behind this is to minimize the number of infusions an artificer has to spend, the amount of items he has to carry around, and the amount of money he has to spend, to maximize the number of persisted spells from this trick.

The aritificer is already broken, so it depend on your game.

Now what I would do to accomplish this trick.  I would buy a schema with metamagic item and play the sublime chord.  Take the Channel Charge feat from Lost Empires of Faerun that lets you spend one of your spell slots one level higher than the spell being cast from the staff in place of a charge.  You will still be burning spells, but without having to get persistent spell in the normal fashion.  Of course you can use the loops commented on above as well.