Last 3.5 hurrah, first gestalt character

[bradywan]

  So, my group is planning it's last foray in 3.5, and for the first time we're being allowed the gestalt option.  I've never given it much thought actually, but now I feel overwhelmed with possible combos.  I'm looking at a character along the lines of warblade/knight or knight/paladin/crusader using the 2d8 mercurial greatsword from Sword and Fist (3.0) and just being the baddest melee character in town.  I have never made a character like this however and could use some pointers.

  34 point buy/2 traits/2 flaws allowed/WotC material allowed, any 3.5, 3.0 with dm approval, dragon mag with dm approval, all campaign settings ok.

 Looking for some guidance along the lines of shock trooper, combat brute, jotunbrud, power attack, ect.

 What would you make your melee monster with? Warblade/?

[AndyJames]

Try to keep to one Stat requirement only. I tend to find that multi-stat monsters like Paladins are traps if you want to be the biggest baddest guy in town. They are good for run of the mill characters, but not crazy optimised ones.

What level are you starting in and what level do you expect to finish? At higher levels (about level 7 onwards), casters make better melee combatants than most melee types.

[bradywan]

 Ah sorry, 1st level. We will probably play til 20th.  Yeah casters will eventually outshine the melee's but the casters are already chosen.  I need to make the most effective melee combatant I can.

[vilenatas]

Factotum/Warblade maybe.

[AndyJames]

Ah sorry, 1st level. We will probably play til 20th.  Yeah casters will eventually outshine the melee's but the casters are already chosen.  I need to make the most effective melee combatant I can.

It doesn't matter. At low levels, just about any d8 character is a fairly effective tank. Clerics and druids make for excellent tanks, especially if the druid has a riding dog companion (pop a leather barding on the puppy and it's AC is 18, higher than just about anyone else can get at that level). I am tanking as a cleric right now at level 2.

At the moment, I am partial to the Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist/Shiba Protector build. Getting both Wis and Str/Dex to hit and Wis and Str to damage is gold. Once you hit caster level 7, Divine Power will give you all the BAB you can get. Have your arcane buddy cast Greater Mighty Wallop on you and go to town.

On the other side of the gestalt, I'd look at Druid/something or other (maybe Planar Shepherd for Wish abuse?).

If the DM doesn't like dual progression PrCs like the Sacred Fist, I would go LN Monk/Psychic Warrior/Shiba Protector with that Tasha-something or other feat that allows you to mix the two. Put Dread Necro 1 (Rebuke)/Cleric X (Turn) on the other side for double the Persistent DMM fun.

EDIT: Remember that Shibe Protector advance Monk unarmed strike abilities, as do all Oriental Adventures PrC.

[Gavinfoxx]

What casters have been chosen?

And remember, if you want to shine in D&D, you need super-powers. Those are generally Spells...

[carnivore]

try this:

Rogue(Feat Variant) 20// Warblade 20

+20 BAB
8 skill points+ Int/ lvl
Fighter bonus feats and can pick feats as Fighter-2 lvl
20d12 HD
great abilities for Int Synergy
Trapfinding also

easy to learn .... easy to use, Very effective

 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Factotum/Warblade maybe.

Seconding. 

[Nytemare3701]

Factotum/Warblade maybe.

Gonna have to agree there. Factotum gives INT to almost everything, along with granting extra actions. Just stack Font of Inspiration.

Warblades are amazing on their own, and are fairly feat independent, aside from the bonus feats they get.

[Mixster]

Wonderful things can be done around a monk, a warblade (or crusader depending on preference), a swordsage and an Ur-Priest.
Also it depends on whether you DM allows two PrCs to be taken at once, if so, this build can be made a LOT better.

Consider something like this:
Monk 1 // Warblade 1
Monk 2 // Warblade 2
Swordsage 1 // Warblade 3
Swordsage 2 // Warblade 4
Swordsage 3 // Warblade 5
Ur-priest 1 // Warblade 6
Ur-priest 2// Warblade 7
Sacred Fist8//Warblade 15
Shiba Protector 1 // Warblade 16

And so on.
It gets you wis to damage thrice, and wis to ac twice. Wis is also your casting stat. And you also get wis on your to hit rolls from shiba protector at the high levels. You can cast cleric spells, to heal or buff yourself, but most of them you don't really need.
Only downside is that if your DM invokes multi-classing, or has a stupid interpretation of alignments. You have to be LE and a human to not inquire any of those problems.

[AndyJames]

AC from Monk and Swordsage does not stack.

I don't see where you are getting Wis to damage twice unless you are taking about sacred flames which can only be used twice a day at most.

I fail to see any stupid interpretation of alignments. I also fail to see why a DM won't invoke multiclassing XP penalties, since that is the default way to play things. However, I also don't see where that build would have an XP penalty problem.

[lans]

Crusader and incarnate might be an interesting combination.  Incarnate ups your tanking and provides versatility.

 Maybe Incarnate 4 then onto other stuff?

[strider24seven]

 

AC from Monk and Swordsage does not stack.

From where are you getting this? 
They are not from the same source and to this date, I've not seen an errata stating that they do not stack. 
Perhaps CustServ or the FAQ made a ruling on this, but we know how reliable that they can be...

Factotum/Warblade maybe.

Seconding. 

I present:  the Factotum of War!
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871250/Factotum_of_War

And, I realize that this may not be what you were looking for, but Psion/Warblade might be nice for you.  d12 HD, all good saves (with the warblade's INT bonus to Reflex saves), and a host of psionic powers that help with tanking:  Vigor, Share Pain, Control Body+Solicit Psicrystal, Schism.  This way, you are a melee monster now and you are not overshadowed by casters later.

[RobbyPants]

AC from Monk and Swordsage does not stack.

From where are you getting this? 

Well, if you want to be really pedantic, the monk AC bonus only applies if you're unarmored, and the swordsage bonus only applies if you're wearing light armor.  You can't do both at the same time.

Of course, I think everyone house-rule fixes that second part and lets the swordsage get the bonus with no armor, even if they don't know they're house-ruling it.

[fuinjutsu]

Crusader and incarnate might be an interesting combination.  Incarnate ups your tanking and provides versatility.

 Maybe Incarnate 4 then onto other stuff?

If you want Incarnate for tanking, take it to 20.  That makes every point of essentia you put into vitality belt an Improved Toughness feat.  That's 120 bonus HP at level 20.

If you want damage output, natural attacks > iterative attacks in most cases.  Totemist all the way.  A Skarn totemist double binding Chimera Mask and Girallon Arms to totem, and Astral Vambraces to hands...

That gets you 2 primary bites and a primary gore, 3 secondary claws, and a secondary each of Spines and Slam....

check me on that.

[CantripN]

Factotum/Warblade maybe.

Seconding. 

I present:  the Factotum of War!
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871250/Factotum_of_War

That's been my first Gestalt creation, and I gotta say that having seen it in play, it's AMAZING.
Only thing that I'd seen to be a better Gish was my Gestalt Sorcerer, but that's using some House Rules. Still, a CHA focused build does wonders.

Both are great fun and useful.

[Mixster]

AC from Monk and Swordsage does not stack.

Off course they do, reading that any other way would be silly

I don't see where you are getting Wis to damage twice unless you are taking about sacred flames which can only be used twice a day at most.

Shiba Protector gives wis to damage, Swordsage gives wis to damage when striking with a stone dragon, a setting sun or a shadow hand manoeuvre. You'll be able to do that.

I fail to see any stupid interpretation of alignments. I also fail to see why a DM won't invoke multiclassing XP penalties, since that is the default way to play things. However, I also don't see where that build would have an XP penalty problem.

The stupid interpretation of alignment is that evil character deserve to die for merely being evil, and all that Jazz. A silly interpretation that makes DMs disallow evil characters.
DMs playing with favored class are pretty rare around here, but I sure am glad they still exist.
The class has a problem with having warblade 16, and it's other classes at 3 and 2. This usually gives a Multi-class penalty. Unless you are human.

Anyway, it was just a build thrown together quickly to show him what I meant, and was just to give him other options than the most marvelous Factotum//Warblade.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

Crusader19, Bard1 // Binder20  (KoSS i guess if you feel like it)

take song of the white raven so crusader levels(hmm works with warblade too) stack with bard for Inspire Courage

then use Zceryll [spoiler]http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718[/spoiler]
to spam a level appropriate summon monster every 5 rounds, they even get the pseudonatural template

now you're a meat shield with meat shields that you can buff yourself,

/can change vestiges if needed for social situations

EDIT: Zceryll is a 6th level vestige(available 12th binder level), so maybe not as good for 1 to 20, could still inspire party members though...