Author Topic: looking for a low level save-or-suck.  (Read 6303 times)

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Akalsaris

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2010, 05:03:53 AM »
Not exactly on topic but still very related:
Do you think that the errata makes Irresistible Spell worthless or would you still consider taking it?

Probably not unless I was deliberately making a save-or-die character or an enchanter and was willing to pile on metamagic reducers.  Personally I prefer getting new spells to play with rather than using old spells that are more effective than they were earlier.

Nytemare3701

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2010, 06:33:47 AM »
I have arcane thesis in Silent Image, so Irresistable+Chain is easier to do for Shadowcraft evo/con.

RobbyPants

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2010, 12:34:33 PM »
Not exactly on topic but still very related:
Do you think that the errata makes Irresistible Spell worthless or would you still consider taking it?
What's the level-adjustment after the errata?  I mean, Heighten Spell raises the DC too, although never by +10.
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ImmortalSoul

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2010, 04:41:48 PM »
Was it changed? I thought the level adjustment remained the same. Where would I look the errata for this spell up, anyway?

RobbyPants

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2010, 04:58:43 PM »
What is it, regardless?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

BeholderSlayer

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2010, 05:07:53 PM »
+4 spell level, unchanged in any updates AFAIK
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Allow me to welcome you both with my literal words and with an active display of how much you fit in by being tone deaf, dumb, and uncritical of your babbling myself.[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2010, 05:21:40 PM »
It could be worth it.  If you already have competitive DCs, you're effectively adding +6 to the DC right there (10 - the 4 you lost from the slot adjustment).  Throw in Arcane Thesis, Easy Metamagic, Icanctrix, and what-not, and then it's pretty cheap, slot-wise.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]


Echoes

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2010, 06:55:11 PM »
so uh...any more good low level evo/con save or sucks?

If you can crib sorcerer-only spells, wings of flurry owns everybody. Uncapped force damage, no-save daze, selective targeting. Slap sculpt on that and go to town. If you can't, orb of fire gives you single-target no-save daze plus solid damage. 
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As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

Out of Context Theater
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Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
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Ithamar

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2010, 06:58:43 PM »
Both Wings of Flurry and Orb of Fire allow saving throws.  Or am I missing something?
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Kajhera

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2010, 07:01:30 PM »
Both Wings of Flurry and Orb of Fire allow saving throws.  Or am I missing something?

If this is true, then, actually, they become more relevant to the person wanting 'save or suck' spells.
So it's all good.  :p

Vicerious

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2010, 08:10:35 PM »
Both Wings of Flurry and Orb of Fire allow saving throws.  Or am I missing something?
Yes, they do.
Wings of flurry allows a Reflex save for half damage.  Additionally, creatures that fail the save are also dazed for 1 round.  Orb of fire allows a Fortitude save to avoid being dazed for 1 round -but only for the daze, not the damage.

While being dazed really sucks, both of those spells are level 4 and not really what I would consider "low level."

That said, two very nice 2nd level conjurations would be cloud of bewilderment (causes nausea on failed save) and baleful transposition (an ally and enemy swap places, enemy gets a save).  They're both from the Spell Compendium
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Nytemare3701

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2010, 10:46:34 PM »
Transposition to move a caster to us and our grappler to them...I like it!

Gavinfoxx

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2010, 11:27:14 PM »
You know, your questions plug into http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/FindSpell.php REALLY well...

Just select "Conjuration" "Evocation", Spell level is equal to or less than 2, is in Sorcerer/Wizard, has the effect types that have to do with target, has a saving throw that involves saves, and click search.
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RobbyPants

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2010, 10:00:22 AM »
Transposition to move a caster to us and our grappler to them...I like it!
Baleful Transportation?  That could be good.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Echoes

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2010, 10:42:34 AM »
Both Wings of Flurry and Orb of Fire allow saving throws.  Or am I missing something?

Yes, he's asking in the context of the Irresistible Spell feat (from Kingdoms of Kalamar), which makes the metamagic'd spell not grant a save.
BrokeAndDrive speaks the Truth (linked for great justice and signature limits)

Quotes I Found Entertaining:

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

Out of Context Theater
[spoiler]
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2010, 11:25:00 AM »
Transposition to move a caster to us and our grappler to them...I like it!
Not a legal spell for Shadow Illusion. It's not Conjuration (Creation or Summoning). It's Conjuration (Teleportation).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
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Nytemare3701

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2010, 03:28:46 PM »
Damn.

What happens if you chain a transposition?

A switches with B.
A switches with C
A switches with D
A switches with E
A switches with F

A ends up at the end of the chain, with everyone else moved one jump.

MUSICAL CHAIRS COMBAT.

ShriekingDrake

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Re: looking for a low level save-or-suck.
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2010, 06:08:02 PM »
1st or 2nd level, save or suck single target spells. I'm going to have fun with irresistable+chain.   :D

Spells so far:

Jolt (Cantrip that is fort or drop held items.)

In what book is Jolt?