So I have a interest in finding out what the correct expanded damage progression for unarmed damage is.. What follows is a whole bunch of stuff that I copied from multiple sources.. Really, I'd just like to find out which one is absolutely truly right.
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Unarmed Damage Progression
1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
2d10
3d6
3d8
3d10
etc
etc
Improved Natural Attack
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
Expanded table:
1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6, 14d6, 16d6, 18d6, 20d6
1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8, 14d8, 16d8, 18d8, 20d8
the DMG has 2d10:4d8:6d8:8d8:12d8
After that I had to extrapolate it. And I was following the pattern (present there and the entry above with DC) of +2/+2/+4/+4/+6/+6/+8 dice.
Med sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=2d10
Large sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=4d8
Huge sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=6d8
Gargantuan sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=8d8
Colossal sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=12d8
SRD:
Table: Increased Damage By Size Old Damage (Each)1 New Damage
1. Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size category.
1d2 1d3
1d3 1d4
1d4 1d6
1d6 1d8
1d8 2d6
1d10 2d8
2d6 3d6
2d8 3d8
From Trip Monk-ey of Doom:
2d10-> 4d8-> 6d8-> 9d8-> 12d8-> 18d8-> 28d8-> 43d8-> 43d10-> 43d12-> 43d20+3d12
I will accept that 2d10 becoes 4d8 as I have found corroborating evidence in the player handbook. In equipment / weapons / weapon qualities / damage there is a table: Tiny and large weapon damage which specifically shows that 2d10 becomes 4d8.
Beyond this I really would use the improved natural attack progress as it was designed for this sort of thing.
So, with 7 advancements 4d8 would become 32d8.
2d10-> 4d8-> 6d8-> 8d8-> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d8 -> 32d8 -> 32d10 -> 32d12 -> 32d20
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It should be like this:
2d10->4d8->6d8->8d8->12d8->16d8->24d8->32d8->48d8->64d8->96d8
96d8->96d10->96d12->96d20
Absolutely impresive, and following the rules.
For the people who don't get how increasing damage by size works, I'll try and explain how I think it works:
Each time you increase it, it doubles the number of dice in the previous size, keeping the dice size unchanged.
Let's check it in the INA chart:
1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
For 1d10/2d8/3d8 it doesn't apply, size the damage isn't high enough.
Now, starting at 4d8, you'll see that 6d8 = 2*3d8.
Then, 8d8 = 2*4d8.
After that, 12d8 = 2*6d8.
And we keep going like that:
12d8 -> 16d8 (2*8d8) -> 24d8 (2*12d8) -> 32d8 (2*16d8) -> 48d8 (2*24d8) -> 64d8 (2*32d8) -> 96d8 (2*48d8) .
After that, it would go: 96d8 -> 128d8 -> 192d8 -> 256d8 -> 384d8, but I doubt we'll get that high.
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So the complete die increase progression should be +1/+1/+2/+2/+4/+4/+8/+8/+16/+16/+32/+32...
+N means +N d8 to the last total damage.
Too bad they don't have anything for a weapon that deals 2d10...
Assuming that a 2d10 weapon should use the 1d10 progression multiplied by two, it should go +2/+2/+4/+4/+8/+8/+16/+16/+32/+32/+64/+64.
Which is 2d10 ->4d8 ->6d8 ->10d8 ->14d8 ->22d8 ->30d8 ->46d8 ->62d8 ->94d8 ->126d8 ->190d8 ->254d8.
NOT 2d10->4d8->6d8->8d8->12d8->16d8->24d8->32d8->48d8->64d8->96d8
96d8->96d10.
CubeKnight
11-02-04, 06:18 PM
Almost. You skipped a "+2" after 6d8. From 4d8 to 6d8 it's only one +2, the second one is from 6d8 to 8d8. If you take 1d10's progression and multiply it by two, you get:
2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d8
To get this I just took the "1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8." and doubled the dice used.
EDIT: Something else. If you look at the dice closely, you'll see that, beggining at 8d8, all of them are exact multiples of 4 (8 = 4*2, 12=4*3, 16=4*4, 24=4*6), which is a clear sign of a regular progression, whereas, in the progression you post, they don't share a property like that.
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Ah, right you are. So there is no existing progression beyond 24 (12) d8.
Which means that at that point, the character must switch to the MM progressions (which states "For each" rather then using absolute damage values).
So you take 24d8, and then for the next step it becomes 36d8 (each 2d8 ->3d8). Then 54d8 (each 2d8 ->3d8). Then 81d8. 81d8 creates a problem. It isn'r made of 2d8s. So, I guess the most logical thing is to convert 81 1d8s. That makes for 162d6.
Coninuing with that, we get a total progression of 2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d8 -> 36d8 -> 54d8 -> 81d8 -> 162d6 -> 243d6 -> 243d8.
However, if you want to go by the letter of the rules (the RAW) you can't use the INA progression. Why? It dosen't deal with weapons that deal 2d10 damage. It dosen't have a "for each."
So, using the only RAW way to advance a 2d10 weapon by size, you use the Improving Monsters table. For each 1d10, you get 2d8. For each 2d8 you get 3d8. For each 3d8, you can do one of two things. 3d8 contains a 2d8 which you can convert to 3d8 and a 1d8 which you can convert to 2d6. That is probably the most RAW answer. However, 3d8+2d6 isn't as pretty as the other option, which is converting 3 1d8s into 3 2d6s.
So, 3d8 -> 6d6. 6d6 contains 3 2d6s, so it becomes 9d6. Using the prior logic, 9d6 becomes 9d8. And so on.
So you end up with 2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 9d8 -> 18d6 -> 27d6 -> 27d8 -> 54d6 -> 81d6 -> 81d8 -> 162d6 -> 243d6 -> 243d8.
That is the most logical RAW progression. Amazingly, 9th steps the progressions match up.
I would not consider 1*4, 1.5*4, 2*4, 3*4, 4*4, 6*4 a "clear progression."
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You go like this:
4d8 (1*4) -> 6d8 ((1+.5)*4) -> 8d8 ((1+.5+.5)*4)) -> 12d8 ((1+.5+.5+1)*4) -> 16d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1)*4) -> 24d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1+2)*4) -> 32d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1+2+2)*4) -> 48d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1+2+2+4)*4)
