Author Topic: Monk's Handbook  (Read 252395 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2008, 02:26:20 AM »
The fact that I didn't see that clause before now?  Though it is still not all that hot, since it's only a 1:1 trade.  With other things it can get nice.
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Shadowhunter

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1003
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2008, 03:14:38 AM »
Indeed. PA is really neat, but you'll need to tinker with it, for it to be really nice. :)
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2008, 04:03:36 PM »
Like... Hammer Fist, was it? Either Player's Guide to Faerun or Races of Faerun. It's a 1st-level feat that lets you wield an unarmed strike with two hands.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2008, 09:38:03 PM »
Wait, it's a feat?  I thought it was a dwarf only PrC that did that?  Not having the book (I think...it could be in the pile I never open) I don't know what it is, so I can't add it.  That is one thing that I left out of here not because it wasn't worth mentioning, but because I didn't know what it was.
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2008, 09:47:14 PM »
I looked it up - page 164 of Races of Faerun.

It's not a 1st-level feat, but it is restricted to dwarves (with Str 13 and IUS). You can't use it with flurry of blows, but it says nothing about Decisive Strike :D
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2008, 10:19:07 PM »
DS is FoB for effects that require it, iirc.

EDIT: Found it here.  If that is right, then it's a pretty worthless feat: DS is a special action, and this requires you make a "single unarmed attack".  So close, but not good.  Except for....spring...attack?  Hold the phone, I think we may have just fixed SA.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 10:22:27 PM by dman11235 »
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2008, 12:59:36 AM »
more monk stuff:

Feats from Races of Stone:[spoiler]
Earth Sense .........req: Con 13,Wis 13
while you touch the ground....you can sense # creatures in 20' rad also touching ground

Earth Fist(racial) .......... Req: Dwarf, Gnome, Goliath, Earth sense, Imp Unarmed Strike
while you touch ground...Unarmed Strike = Cold Iron vs DR[/spoiler]

Feats from Dracominicon [spoiler]
 
Endure Blows ..... Req: Con 19, Dragon Type, Toughness
gives DR 2/- stacks with existing....................................... great for Dragonblooded, or Dragonwrought Kobold, can be taken more than once

Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+10
gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -5...................... great for Dragonblooded, or Dragonwrought Kobold or Elan

Imp Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+15,Rapidstrike
gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -10...................... great for Dragonblooded, or Dragonwrought Kobold or Elan

Sense Weakness ......req:Int 13, Combat Expertise, Weapon focus(type of weapon)
Ignore 5 points of DR or Hardness[/spoiler]

Feats from Eberron Campaign setting book:[spoiler]

Double Steel Strike...Req: Exotic Weapon Prof(2 bladed Sword), Weapon Focus(2 Bladed Sword), Flurry
Allows you to treat 2 Bladed Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it

Whirling Steel Strike...Req: Martial Weapon Prof(Long Sword), Weapon Focus(Long Sword), Flurry
Allows you to treat Long Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it

Serpent Strike...Req: Simple Weapon Prof(Long Spear), Weapon Focus(Long Spear), Flurry
Allows you to treat Long Spear as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it

Flensing Strike ....... Req: Exotic Weapon(Kama), Weapon Focus(Kama)
as a Full round action,..1 attack..if hits do normal damage and enemy must save(Fort DC 10+1/2 Character lvl+Wis mod(+2 if using Kama)) or -4 penalty to Attacks, Saves, Checks for 1 min

Powerful Charge ....... Medium or Larger, BAB+1
when charging....do extra damage....+1d8 Med,+2d6 Large, +3d6 Huge, +4d6 Gargantuan, +6d6 Colossal

Greater Powerful Charge ......Powerful Charge, BAB+4
considered +1 size larger[/spoiler]


feats from Champions of Valor:[spoiler]

Carmondine Monk.........req:Int 13, member of special organization(which allows you to freely multiclass with Cleric and Monk)
gives: Int to AC and the DC for Stunning fist and Quivering Palm are based on Int instead of Wis, also +2 monk lvls for one of the following(each day you pick one):
                1)Unarmed Damage
                2)Speed
                3)AC
Silver Fang................Base fort save +4, member or ally of special organization
Natural Weapon or Unarmed Strike considered Silver vs DR

Sun Soul Monk............ Monk 6, member of special order
patron= Selune= +1 point cold damage with unarmed strike and considered Silver vs DR, also +3 monk lvl for Speed bonus[/spoiler]


Feats from Secrets of Sarlona:[spoiler]

Ascetic Psion...............req:Narrow Mind....allows you to freely multiclass with Psion and Monk, also use Int to AC instead of Wis, and lets you re-Focus as a Standard action, as well as progresses unarmed Damage

Tashalatora..............req:Monastic Training(psionic class)(ECS)....progresses AC, Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows[/spoiler]


Monks and Psionics:

Although there is a Natural affinity for each other.....the way they are combined can greatly effect the overall performance of the character. In general one starts with at least 1 level of Monk to start(many times more levels), and then adds Psionic Classes or PrCs to it. Which Classes or PrCs is very important. For the sake of discussion we will always assume 10 levels of Psionic classes(as many Psionic PrCs are that long and we can also compare them to 10 levels of Base Classes). Monks also have a tendency to MAD(Multiple Attribute Dependancy)..but for the most part are Wisdom Based,so....

Since Monk is Wisdom Based it is normal to look first at :NOTE assume main attribute = 16:

Wisdom Based Psionic Classes:

Psychic Warrior 10..................... 27 PP / 10 powers known (PW list) 4th lvl
Ardent 10................................. 88 PP / 11 powers Known/ 5 mantles (6th lvl with Practiced Manifester)
Divine Mind 10........................... 14 PP / 4 powers known...2 mantles 2nd lvl
Fist of Zuoken(Psionic Fist) 10...... 71 PP / 10 powers known (PW list) 5th lvl
Warmind 10 .............................. 70 PP / 6 powers known (PW list) 5th lvl
Zerth Cenobite 10 ..................... 27 PP / 5 powers known (PW List) 4th lvl

Intelligence Based Classes:
Psion 10 .................................. 88 PP / 21 Powers Known 5th lvl
Erudite 10 ................................ 88 PP / 6 unique(23 Powers Known) 5th lvl
Lurk 10 .................................... 27 PP / 10 powers known (Lurk List) 4th lvl

Charisma Based Classes:
Wilder 10 ................................. 88 PP / 6 powers Known 5th lvl

although there might be the tendancy to go for PrC like Fist of Zouoken("Psionic Fist",SRD), it is actually a substandard choice..... The Feat Tashalatora opens up many far better choices.... even without it, and just using Core+XPH, Int based Psionic classes are actually better in most cases, this is far better:

Monk 11/ Psion 1/ Slayer 8
BAB +16
8th lvl Manifester
4th lvl Powers(17 powers known)
58 Power points

mainly because of the BAB and Slayer Class features, and the total number of Powers Known

but with Tashalatora... it becomes far Different, and Add in Carmondine Monk... now you have a Whole new Ballgame:

Monk 2/ Psion 4/ Anarchic Initiate 4/ Slayer 10

BAB +16

Feats:
Monastic Training(Slayer)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Carmondine Monk
Tashalatora(Slayer)
Overchannel
Track
Improved Natural Attack
Superior Unarmed Strike
Practiced Manifester
Robilars Gambit

add in a Monks Belt

gain the following:

Int+3 to AC
Greater Flurry.... full Attack with only Greater Flurry = +16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1
Unarmed Damage= 4d8
17th lvl Psion, 9th lvl Powers @ 20th lvl Manifester
retributive Attacker..... Robilars Gambit, everytime he is attacked, he gets to attack back +16(4d8 damage)

 :D

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2008, 04:25:48 AM »
I appreciate the help, but I'd like to point out a few things:

Quote
Earth Sense .........req: Con 13,Wis 13
while you touch the ground....you can sense # creatures in 20' rad also touching ground

Earth Fist(racial) .......... Req: Dwarf, Gnome, Goliath, Earth sense, Imp Unarmed Strike
while you touch ground...Unarmed Strike = Cold Iron vs DR

Earth Sense is nice, but not really great.  I'd rather spend the feat on something else, but I will add it to the front page.

Earth Fist is worthless, since your unarmed strikes ignore DR anyways (Transmuting).

Quote
Endure Blows ..... Req: Con 19, Dragon Type, Toughness
gives DR 2/- stacks with existing....................................... great for Dragonblooded, or Dragonwrought Kobold, can be taken more than once

Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+10
gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -5...................... great for Dragonblooded, or Dragonwrought Kobold or Elan

Imp Rapid Strike .......req: Dex 9, pair of Natural weapons, Type=Aberation,Dragon,Magical Beats,Plant,BAB+15,Rapidstrike
gain 1 extra attack with natural weapon @ -10...................... great for Dragonblooded, or Dragonwrought Kobold or Elan

Sense Weakness ......req:Int 13, Combat Expertise, Weapon focus(type of weapon)
Ignore 5 points of DR or Hardness

DR 2 for a whole feat....not that great.  It's a trap.

Rapid Strike is also pretty much a trap, since you can't use it with unarmed strikes (you only have one, and it's not a natural attack for this).  For claws it gets better, but it's still probably not as useful unless your claws are your primary attacking method.

Sense Weakness: see Water Splitting Stone.

Quote
Double Steel Strike...Req: Exotic Weapon Prof(2 bladed Sword), Weapon Focus(2 Bladed Sword), Flurry
Allows you to treat 2 Bladed Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it

Whirling Steel Strike...Req: Martial Weapon Prof(Long Sword), Weapon Focus(Long Sword), Flurry
Allows you to treat Long Sword as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it

Serpent Strike...Req: Simple Weapon Prof(Long Spear), Weapon Focus(Long Spear), Flurry
Allows you to treat Long Spear as Special Monk Weapon and can Flurry with it

Your unarmed strikes are strictly better.  And this is a monk guide, not a wannabe fighter guide.  Not to mention that a whole feat to be able to flurry, after Weapon Focus and proficiency, with pretty sub-par weapons is not a good deal.

Quote
Flensing Strike ....... Req: Exotic Weapon(Kama), Weapon Focus(Kama)
as a Full round action,..1 attack..if hits do normal damage and enemy must save(Fort DC 10+1/2 Character lvl+Wis mod(+2 if using Kama)) or -4 penalty to Attacks, Saves, Checks for 1 min

Powerful Charge ....... Medium or Larger, BAB+1
when charging....do extra damage....+1d8 Med,+2d6 Large, +3d6 Huge, +4d6 Gargantuan, +6d6 Colossal

Greater Powerful Charge ......Powerful Charge, BAB+4
considered +1 size larger

Flensing Strike isn't all that hot.  It's a -4 to stuff, but the DC is low and it reduces your attacks for a round.  Note that it can't even be used with Decisive Strike since they are both full round actions.

While Greater PC can be useful for a charge build, PC is just a couple points of damage.

Quote
Carmondine Monk.........req:Int 13, member of special organization(which allows you to freely multiclass with Cleric and Monk)
gives: Int to AC and the DC for Stunning fist and Quivering Palm are based on Int instead of Wis, also +2 monk lvls for one of the following(each day you pick one):
                1)Unarmed Damage
                2)Speed
                3)AC
Silver Fang................Base fort save +4, member or ally of special organization
Natural Weapon or Unarmed Strike considered Silver vs DR

Sun Soul Monk............ Monk 6, member of special order
patron= Selune= +1 point cold damage with unarmed strike and considered Silver vs DR, also +3 monk lvl for Speed bonus

I already have Carmedine Monk, and the other two are worthless.  See Earth Fist for reasoning.  And I did look at these.  I think I have Sun Soul Monk though.  Note that you choose one of the benefits: speed, damage, or silver.

Quote
Ascetic Psion...............req:Narrow Mind....allows you to freely multiclass with Psion and Monk, also use Int to AC instead of Wis, and lets you re-Focus as a Standard action, as well as progresses unarmed Damage

Tashalatora..............req:Monastic Training(psionic class)(ECS)....progresses AC, Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows

Already have these.  I may have forgotten the psion one though.

On your psionics: 4d8 damage for a monk is pitiful.  I'll assume you get rid of INA and just use powers to grow (or if you can't become colossal or don't want to, buy a Fanged Ring).

Also, I did address the fact that FoZ is sub-par compared to Tashalatora, along with much of everything else here.  Please, go read my guide.
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Omen of Peace

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Wise Madman
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2008, 08:34:22 AM »
In the Champions of Valor WE, there's a substitution level for monks that worship Shar that grants Shadow Blend (near-permanent total concealment) at level 7 - pretty awesome.
Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2008, 11:43:30 PM »
I appreciate the help, but I'd like to point out a few things:

<snip>

Already have these.  I may have forgotten the psion one though.

On your psionics: 4d8 damage for a monk is pitiful.  I'll assume you get rid of INA and just use powers to grow (or if you can't become colossal or don't want to, buy a Fanged Ring).

Also, I did address the fact that FoZ is sub-par compared to Tashalatora, along with much of everything else here.  Please, go read my guide.

4d8 damage is a very nice amount of damage... considering that it is completely Unbuffed(24 hours a day)... if he uses greater metamorphosis to get: Titan Form(Huge) Str 43, Dex 12, Con 39,Reach: 15 ft..... and then uses Expansion +2 Sizes up> Gargantuan> Colossal.... and with Improved Natural Attack(Unarmed Strike) = Colossal+1,.......but he also has BAB +16(Full Attack +16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 and additional Retributive attacks(Robilars Gambit).... and is a Primary Manifester(Psion 17 = 9th lvl Powers)..... as well as the best Monk Stuff maxed out, and on top of it all he is a Single Attribute Character, everything runs off of Int ...... he kicks the crap out of the Sample builds you posted :

Monk 2/sorcerer 3/enlightened fist 3/abjurant champion 5/enlightened fist+7
Monk (Passive Way) 2/psychic warrior 2/swordsage 1/initiate of draconic mysteries 4/SS+1/shadow sun ninja 1/fist of the forest 3/warshaper 2/IoDM+4


what i was showing ... was that my character was very effective... Naked without any equipment and without Buffs.... it just gets stronger with Equipment and Buffing

 :D

« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 11:45:56 PM by carnivore »

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2008, 11:58:47 PM »
You can't deal damage as a size larger than colossal.  You can get other damage boosts, but colossal is the max for size increases.

Also:

Quote
was that my character was very effective... Naked without any equipment and without Buffs

Not as a monk really, or he's just as effective as my healbot (which actually gets changed a bit to make tripping better, I don't need that much damage so levels of IoDM get tossed aside, maybe for Warhulk or Fighter for feats or more psychic warrior for more powers and feats) who (without equipment and buffs) is still a monk with great tripping, disarming, and bull rushing capabilities.  You are not a monk, but a psion with the capabilities to be a monk.  This is not news that a tier 2 can out-perform a tier 5.

And he's far from SAD.  He doesn't rely on int for attack or damage, that's still str of dex (if you take wp finesse).

Also, giving the unbuffed version of a buff based fighter is silly.  Very silly.  You have to include the buffs so that you know what it can actually do.  That said, I am adding your psion build to the front as a sample build, because it is actually effective.  Even if it is actually just a psion with some monk stuff.  That's what my sorcerer is (which you can make better, I know you can because that was made a long time ago: it's simple, it's supposed to be simple).
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2008, 10:10:28 PM »
You are not a monk, but a psion with the capabilities to be a monk.  This is not news that a tier 2 can out-perform a tier 5.
what is a Monk then... by your Definition?....

"archetypal unarmed/unarmored combatant."? ... mine does great with only Unarmed attacks... but it can do FAR MORE

"There are a couple rules when building a monk."... ok fine ...
"The first one is multiclass."...... did that
"The second one is prestige class." ..... did that
"The third is don’t take more than 6 levels of monk."..... did that
"And the fourth is to increase unarmed damage whenever possible, to make it viable as a weapon.".... did that
"And the fifth is DON’T TAKE MORE THAN SIX LEVELS!"..... did that

what is it you are saying my build is Missing?

Primary Melee...... it can Outperform your builds easily
Battlefield Control..... it does a wonderful job at this as well
Defensive Master........ it can do this even better
Scout....................... it has excellent Scouting ability

Quote
Unfortunately, there aren’t very many more paths you can take with this concept.  Ranged combat is out of the question, as is skill monkeying, due to the lack of support for either one.  Sure the skill list is nice (and has Diplomacy!) but with int being a low priority stat and only 4+int skills, there’s not much to do here, you’re stuck with either hide/move silently or spot/listen and then tumble and one other, without an int bonus.  It is also hard to do more than two of the above things, due to the lack of versatility present in the class.
mine can do many of those other roles with little difficulty... even more than 2 at the same time

Quote
And he's far from SAD.  He doesn't rely on int for attack or damage, that's still str of dex (if you take wp finesse).

my build will do just fine with these stats:

32 pt buy

12 Str
14 Dex
14 Con
16 Int
14 Wis
8 Cha

all level boosts go to Int

it can even work just fine with a 25pt buy, using these Stats:

10 Str
13 Dex
12 Con
16 Int
12 Wis
8 Cha


even from 1st lvl, this can work well...... will it Outperform an Optimized Build @ 1st level... not necessarily, but it can survive and contribute in a meaningful way to the party.... it gets progressively stronger, @5th lvl it is very useful, @10th lvl can provide Major Contributions in several areas, 15th lvl will overpower some other Monk type Builds,etc..

seeing as how it does not rely on Physical Stats... but gains them thru Metamorphosis(Greater Metamorphosis later)... it truely does rely on a Single Stat...


please enlighten me

 :D


dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2008, 11:37:25 PM »
....I was saying that it is obvious why your build is better than my healer monk.  You have near full psion manifesting.  Of course you'll be more powerful than something that can just trip/disarm/bull rush/deal damage/heal.  About as powerful as a properly built sorcerer monk, they're in the same tier sorc/psion.  And psionics work better fro monk than magic does thanks to Tashalatora.

So yeah.  This is a psion with the capabilities of being a monk.  A monk with full manifesting if you prefer.  I was saying that I agree with you to a degree.
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2008, 11:50:15 PM »
heres a Build that Dumps : Wisdom and Strength... but Kicks Butt as a MONK

The Intelligent Unarmed Spanker


type: Tactical,Unarmed AoO
Race: Human
Build Stub: Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Warblade 15

Ability scores: DEX>INT>CON>STR>CHA>WIS
28-PB: 14, 16, 14, 10, 10, 10
32-PB: 16, 16, 14, 10, 10, 10

1.Monk
2.Monk
3.Swashbuckler
4.Swashbuckler
5.Warblade
6.Warblade
7.Swashbuckler
8.Warblade
9.Warblade
10.Warblade
11.Warblade
12.Warblade
13.Warblade
14.Warblade
15.Warblade
16.Warblade
17.Warblade
18.Warblade
19.Warblade
20.Warblade

feats

Improved Unarmed(monk)
Combat Reflexes(monk)
Improved Grapple(monk)
Weapon Finnesse(Swashbuckler)
Unnerving Calm(Warblade)
Blade Meditation(Warblade)
Ironheart(warblade)
Carmondine Monk
Superior Unarmed Strike
2 weapon fighting
Improved 2 weapon fighting
Double Hit
Robilars Gambit
Martial Study(Cloak of Deception,SH2)
Martial Study(Shadow Blink,SH7)

Attributes at 20th lvl
16 Str(base 10 + 6 item)
28 Dex(base 16 + 6 item +1 lvl +5 inherent)
20 Con(base 14 + 6 item)
30 Int(base 16 + 6 item +4 lvls +4 Inherent)
16 Wis(base 10 + 6 item)
16 Cha(base 10 + 6 item)

at 20th lvl......BAB +19

Full Attack
19+9 Dex+ 5 Enhancement(greater magic weapon..or ammulet)

+33/+28/+23/+18
and 2d6 +10 Int +3 Str= 2d6+13 Each
thus when flurry and 2 Wpn fight and imp 2wpn fight...attack bonus is as follows:

+31/+31/+31/+26/+26/+21/+15

and he gets 9 AoOs...which generate 2 attacks for each(Double Hit)....all at:

19+9 Dex+ 5 Enhancement(greater magic weapon..or ammulet) +10 Int(Warblade)
+43/+43...and 2d6+23damage

he gets:

Int to Damage(Unarmed)
Int to AC
Int to Confirm Crits
2xInt to Damage vs Flatfooted/Flanked
Int to Opposed checks(bull rush,trip,etc...)
Int to Attack for AoO
2xInt to Damage for AoO
Dex to Attack
Dex to AC
Dex to Initiative

Good Items he will need:

+5 tome of Dex
+4 tome of Int
+6 belt of Magnificense
Amulet of retribution
Boots of Speed


Manuvers:
Diamond Mind:
Moment of Perfect Clarity
Action Before Thought
Rapid Counter
Pearl of Black Doubt(stance)

Tiger Claw:
Hunters Stance
Wolverine Stance
Wolf Pack Tactics Stance
Pouncing Charge
Dancing Mongoose
Raging Mongoose
Girallons Windmill

Shadow Hand...thru Martial Study
Cloak of Deception
Shadow Blink


The main idea.......a Character who looks unimposing...No weapons, No Spell books,or component pouches....looks like a servant or butler......even without using any Manuvers....just Feats and Class abilities....he is very strong

For combat.....uses Cloak of Deception to go Greater invisible then While in Wolf pack Stance...can attack and Move 5' after each attack...if he uses 2 attacks for 4 opponents...he does an extra 8d6 to each(Girrallons Windmill)...and if they attack him he gets 2 AoO attacks if both hit..he does an extra 8d6 each time because he is still under the efects of Giralllons Windmill.....after he attacks...he uses Shadow Blink to get back to his start Position as if nothing happened...and becomes visible again

he is Far stronger when he Flanks or makes AoOs.......Int to Damagex3=+30 damage to each attack when Flanking, Int to Attack(+10) and 2x Int to Damage(+20) when making AoO(3xInt to Damage when Making AoO and Flanking)

some Monks can Kick Butt bad with little Str or Wis
 :D

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2008, 11:53:20 PM »
i have another Build that shows why Shou Disciple kicks butt big time

also i have a Monk-less Monk(no Monk levels or Swordsage levels)... but can still do all Monk stuff... it needs some work to finish it up

 :D

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2008, 11:54:47 PM »
Int replaces wis though, so it's hardly the same as dumping it.  You still have a good mental stat.  This build might just be added later too though.  It is pretty tasty.  One thing: TWF doesn't benefit you if you only have 1 weapon.  Why take it?
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2008, 11:59:56 PM »
Int replaces wis though, so it's hardly the same as dumping it.  You still have a good mental stat.  This build might just be added later too though.  It is pretty tasty.  One thing: TWF doesn't benefit you if you only have 1 weapon.  Why take it?

Int is far different than Wis... it gives far more to this Build... and you will notice that i did Dump Wis and Str..... the fact that i used something else does not negate the fact that they are unnecessary for this build


in the Official D&D FAQ... they stated that a Monk with TWF could gain additional Unarmed Attacks... thus the TWF feat tree gives monks a lot more attacks...... it is stupid in line with what the PHB states about Unarmed attacks and Off-Hand attacks.... however.... this character mainly uses TWF and Imp TWF for the Pre-reqs for Double Hit

the Unarmed Spanker could make off-hand Armed Attacks with a Special Monk Weapon

 :D
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 12:01:34 AM by carnivore »

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2008, 12:13:08 AM »
All the FAQ states is that TWF can be used with FoB and that an US can be used as the off-hand.  No where does it state that an US can be used as both off- and on-hand.
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

carnivore

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2008, 03:56:09 AM »
page 19

Quote from: FAQ
Q:The description of the flurry of blows ability says
there’s no such thing as a monk attacking with an off-hand
weapon during a flurry of blows. What does that mean,
exactly? Can the monk make off-hand attacks in addition to
flurry attacks?


A:Actually, the text to which you refer appears in the entry
for unarmed strikes. When a monk uses her unarmed strike
ability, she does not suffer any penalty for an off-hand attack,
even when she has her hands full and attacks with her knees
and elbows, using the flurry of blows ability to make extra
attacks, or both.
The rules don’t come right out and say that a monk can’t
use an unarmed strike for an off-hand strike (although the exact
wording of the unarmed strike ability suggests otherwise), and
no compelling reason why a monk could not do so exists.
When using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack, the monk
suffers all the usual attack penalties from two-weapon fighting
(see Table 8–10 in the PH) and the monk adds only half her
Strength bonus (if any) to damage if the off-hand unarmed
strike hits.
To add an off-hand attack to a flurry of blows, stack
whatever two-weapon penalty the monk has with the penalty (if
any) from the flurry. Attacks from the flurry have the monk’s
full damage bonus from Strength, but the off-hand attack gains
only half Strength bonus to damage.
If the off-hand attack is a
D&D FAQ v.3.5 20 Update Version: 6/30/08
weapon, that weapon isn’t available for use in the flurry (if it
can be used in a flurry at all, see the previous question). For
example, a 4th-level monk with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat
and a Strength score of 14 decides to use a flurry of blows and
decides to throw in an off-hand attack as well. The monk has a
base attack bonus of +3 and a +2 Strength bonus. With a flurry,
the character can make two attacks, each at +3 (base +3, –2
flurry, +2 Strength). An unarmed strike is a light weapon, so
the monk suffers an additional –2 penalty for both the flurry
and the off-hand attack, and the monk makes three attacks,
each at an attack bonus of +1. The two attacks from the flurry
are primary attacks and add the monk’s full Strength bonus to
damage of +2. The single off-hand attack adds half the monk’s
Strength bonus to damage (+1).
If the monk in our example has two sais to use with the
flurry, plus the off-hand attack, she can use both in the flurry
(in which case she must make the off-hand attack with an
unarmed strike) or one sai for the off-hand attack and one with
the flurry. The sai used in the off-hand attack is not available
for the flurry and vice versa.

page 20

Quote from: FAQ
Q:Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine
a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her
penalties on attack rolls?


A: A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other
character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her
attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand
weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with
a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but
remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special
monk weapons as part of the flurry
). The penalties for twoweapon
fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.
For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally
make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of
blows, she can make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any
special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she
wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to
accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8
penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light
weapon in her off hand).
If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only
a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off
hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand
during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks,
each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to
be with her off-hand weapon.
A 20th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can
make eight attacks per round during a flurry of blows.
Assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand, her three
off-hand weapon attacks are at +13/+8/+3, and she has five
attacks (at +13/+13/+13/+8/+3) with unarmed strikes or any
weapons she carries in her primary hand. If the same monk also
has Rapid Shot and throws at least one shuriken as part of her
flurry of blows (since Rapid Shot can be used only with ranged
attacks), she can throw one additional shuriken with her
primary hand, but all of her attacks (even melee attacks) suffer
a –2 penalty. Thus, her full attack array looks like this:
+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 primary hand (two must be with
shuriken) and +11/+6/+1 off hand.
:D
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 04:01:02 AM by carnivore »

dman11235

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
    • Email
Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2008, 05:43:45 AM »
I have been shown that many times, and every single time I must point out that no where does it suggest that an US can be used as both weapons (re: TWO WEAPONS) in TWF.

All these two entries reinforce is that a monk can use TWF in conjunction with FoB, and that an US can be used as the off-hand in TWF.

And even if they did suggest that, the FAQ is not RAW, so it's not always right.  Only the Errata and the books themselves can claim being RAW.
My sig's Handy Haversack: Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.