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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #240 on: July 13, 2010, 09:49:52 PM »
I thought I covered this all ready...

[spoiler]
I'm reading through the Tattooed Monk and I see the main issues with it (doesn't improve Unarmed damage aside from progressing at Monk level, Medium BAB, poor skills, and a wasted feat), but the benefits attached to the class are really... unusually high powered. Worth noting is that a Kobold can enter this PrC using Races of the Dragon fairly easily.

The tattoos themselves all require a Move action (not Standard) to use. I'm just going to give a quick breakdown of the tattoo abilities:
[spoiler]
Arrowroot: Lay on Hands, but Wisdom based. Class level*Wisdom modifier in HP can be healed. Assuming 10th level and a Wis of 30, that's 100 HP (vastly superior to Wholeness of Body, but not that great). Move action to use. Kinda meh.

Bamboo: 1/day/tattoo, get an Enhancement bonus to Con equal to the number of tattoos you have. Lasts 1 round/class level. Meh, not as good as the real deal. If it wasn't an Enhancement Bonus, it would be well worth it. The good news is it is usable 5/day.

Bat: As Bamboo, but Dex.

Bellflower: As Bamboo, but Cha.

Butterfly: As Bamboo, but Wis.

Centipede: 1/Week, Shadow Walk as the spell. Minimum of 5th level. Not worth the ability, considering a magic item in the Tome of Magic has the same effect and then some.

Chameleon: Alter Self 1/day/tattoo possessed. Lasts 1 hour/class level. Move action to use. Holy **** this is a great ability for a Monk!

Crab: DR 2/Magic per tattoo. Not worth it at all. If only it were a natural armor increase...

Crane: Stage 1 is immunity to Disease. Stage 2 is immunity to Poison. Stage 3 is Dragonwrought without the feat cost. Advances based on the number of tattoos you have, not on how many times you take it. Kinda meh.

Chrysanthemum: Fast Healing, minus the Fast. You heal 1HP/Class Level/Hour. Cuts healing costs nicely, but meh.

Dragon: 4d6 fire damage, DC 13. It's Scorching Ray, but it allows a save instead of an attack roll. Usable 1/day/tattoo. Due to an odd loophole in the wording, it's actually usable 3/activation as a Move action. Not worth it, but cool to think about.

Dragonfly: 1/day/tattoo, gain a Dodge bonus to AC equal to tattoos possessed for a number of rounds equal to your class level. That's +5 AC 5/day for 1 minute per use. Not powerful, but not bad either.

Falcon: Immune to Fear. Allies within 10ft gain your Cha modifier to Will saves against Fear effects. So much potential in the name, but not worth it.

Lion: 1/day/tattoo, Smite someone. +4 on the attack roll, +Class level to damage. Not red because it is a flat +4, not blue because it doesn't scale well and sucks for extra damage.

Monkey: Blanket +1/Tattoo bonus to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks. So +5 at 10th level. You'd be on crack if you didn't say this was decent. Grant for a Skill Monkey (ha!) wannabe like the Monk.

Crescent Moon: Ethereal Jaunt 1/day. Requires 9th level. CL is decent, but uses/day suck without Action Points in the ECS. Not a bad choice, its just not as good as some new abilities.

Full Moon: +2 Luck bonus on Attacks, Saves, Skill checks, or Ability checks 1/day/tattoo. Move action to use, works only at night. Luck bonuses are hard to find, but its kinda underwhelming.

Mountain: +4 Con and Wis for 1 round/class level, usable 1/day/tattoo. -20 to Dex-based checks, but not Init. Blanket immunity to Bull Rushes or Trip Attempts. If not for the fact that you can't move from the spot you activate it, it would be amazingly powerful. You can't even take 5ft steps. The Con bonus is nice. The Wis bonus is nice.

Nightingale: Wholeness of Body. Better than the original because its a move action, worse than the original because it only heals 20 HP tops, and because the Arrowroot from above is 5 times better (no, really).

Ocean: Never need to Eat, Sleep, or Drink again. Meh.

Phoenix: Ick... SR 15+Class level. SR is fairly bad unless you can control it.

Pine: Remain Conscious? I think they meant Diehard. No such feat. Diehard isn't that good anyway.

Scorpion: 1/day/Tattoo, force an enemy attacking you to use their lowest ability score instead of Strength or Dex. Can be used during your opponent's turn without readying an action, and has no listed duration. They may have meant it to last either for one attack or one round, but RAW there's no duration listed. Check the Errata. Either way, this is a great way to screw someone.

Spider: Stunning fist required. Use a Stunning attempt to instead deliver a Contact poison. 2 Con initial and secondary. DC 10+Class Level+Con. If so many things weren't immune to poison, and didn't have a high Fort save, this would be great.

Sun: Full Moon's counterpart. +2 Luck to checks, but only works in daylight.

Tiger: +1 Attack rolls (untyped), +1d6 damage. Both apply to Unarmed Strike, lasts 1 round/class level, and usable 1/day/tattoo. Decent. If you can't think of anything else to take, take this and run with it.

Tortoise: 1/day/tattoo, replace your ranks in an untrained skill with your class level. Meh, kinda useful.

Unicorn: 1/day, reroll 1d20. That's it. Sucks.

Wasp: Haste for 1 round/class level, usable 1/day/tattoo possessed. In other words, Boots of Speed on crack.

White Mask: Blanket Immunity to any effect that would try to discern your alignment, Detect Thoughts, and Detect Lies. +10 on all Bluff checks.[/spoiler]


It isn't that powerful of a PrC, but it isn't that bad of a choice if you aren't concerned about your Unarmed Damage that much (there's other ways to boost it anyway). Also, if Epic Progression are allowed, Legacy Champion can be used to get more tattoos to work with.

[/spoiler]


[spoiler][/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #241 on: July 14, 2010, 03:48:02 AM »
I thought I covered this all ready...

[spoiler]
I'm reading through the Tattooed Monk and I see the main issues with it (doesn't improve Unarmed damage aside from progressing at Monk level, Medium BAB, poor skills, and a wasted feat), but the benefits attached to the class are really... unusually high powered. Worth noting is that a Kobold can enter this PrC using Races of the Dragon fairly easily.

The tattoos themselves all require a Move action (not Standard) to use. I'm just going to give a quick breakdown of the tattoo abilities:
[spoiler]
Arrowroot: Lay on Hands, but Wisdom based. Class level*Wisdom modifier in HP can be healed. Assuming 10th level and a Wis of 30, that's 100 HP (vastly superior to Wholeness of Body, but not that great). Move action to use. Kinda meh.

Bamboo: 1/day/tattoo, get an Enhancement bonus to Con equal to the number of tattoos you have. Lasts 1 round/class level. Meh, not as good as the real deal. If it wasn't an Enhancement Bonus, it would be well worth it. The good news is it is usable 5/day.

Bat: As Bamboo, but Dex.

Bellflower: As Bamboo, but Cha.

Butterfly: As Bamboo, but Wis.

Centipede: 1/Week, Shadow Walk as the spell. Minimum of 5th level. Not worth the ability, considering a magic item in the Tome of Magic has the same effect and then some.

Chameleon: Alter Self 1/day/tattoo possessed. Lasts 1 hour/class level. Move action to use. Holy **** this is a great ability for a Monk!

Crab: DR 2/Magic per tattoo. Not worth it at all. If only it were a natural armor increase...

Crane: Stage 1 is immunity to Disease. Stage 2 is immunity to Poison. Stage 3 is Dragonwrought without the feat cost. Advances based on the number of tattoos you have, not on how many times you take it. Kinda meh.

Chrysanthemum: Fast Healing, minus the Fast. You heal 1HP/Class Level/Hour. Cuts healing costs nicely, but meh.

Dragon: 4d6 fire damage, DC 13. It's Scorching Ray, but it allows a save instead of an attack roll. Usable 1/day/tattoo. Due to an odd loophole in the wording, it's actually usable 3/activation as a Move action. Not worth it, but cool to think about.

Dragonfly: 1/day/tattoo, gain a Dodge bonus to AC equal to tattoos possessed for a number of rounds equal to your class level. That's +5 AC 5/day for 1 minute per use. Not powerful, but not bad either.

Falcon: Immune to Fear. Allies within 10ft gain your Cha modifier to Will saves against Fear effects. So much potential in the name, but not worth it.

Lion: 1/day/tattoo, Smite someone. +4 on the attack roll, +Class level to damage. Not red because it is a flat +4, not blue because it doesn't scale well and sucks for extra damage.

Monkey: Blanket +1/Tattoo bonus to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks. So +5 at 10th level. You'd be on crack if you didn't say this was decent. Grant for a Skill Monkey (ha!) wannabe like the Monk.

Crescent Moon: Ethereal Jaunt 1/day. Requires 9th level. CL is decent, but uses/day suck without Action Points in the ECS. Not a bad choice, its just not as good as some new abilities.

Full Moon: +2 Luck bonus on Attacks, Saves, Skill checks, or Ability checks 1/day/tattoo. Move action to use, works only at night. Luck bonuses are hard to find, but its kinda underwhelming.

Mountain: +4 Con and Wis for 1 round/class level, usable 1/day/tattoo. -20 to Dex-based checks, but not Init. Blanket immunity to Bull Rushes or Trip Attempts. If not for the fact that you can't move from the spot you activate it, it would be amazingly powerful. You can't even take 5ft steps. The Con bonus is nice. The Wis bonus is nice.

Nightingale: Wholeness of Body. Better than the original because its a move action, worse than the original because it only heals 20 HP tops, and because the Arrowroot from above is 5 times better (no, really).

Ocean: Never need to Eat, Sleep, or Drink again. Meh.

Phoenix: Ick... SR 15+Class level. SR is fairly bad unless you can control it.

Pine: Remain Conscious? I think they meant Diehard. No such feat. Diehard isn't that good anyway.

Scorpion: 1/day/Tattoo, force an enemy attacking you to use their lowest ability score instead of Strength or Dex. Can be used during your opponent's turn without readying an action, and has no listed duration. They may have meant it to last either for one attack or one round, but RAW there's no duration listed. Check the Errata. Either way, this is a great way to screw someone.

Spider: Stunning fist required. Use a Stunning attempt to instead deliver a Contact poison. 2 Con initial and secondary. DC 10+Class Level+Con. If so many things weren't immune to poison, and didn't have a high Fort save, this would be great.

Sun: Full Moon's counterpart. +2 Luck to checks, but only works in daylight.

Tiger: +1 Attack rolls (untyped), +1d6 damage. Both apply to Unarmed Strike, lasts 1 round/class level, and usable 1/day/tattoo. Decent. If you can't think of anything else to take, take this and run with it.

Tortoise: 1/day/tattoo, replace your ranks in an untrained skill with your class level. Meh, kinda useful.

Unicorn: 1/day, reroll 1d20. That's it. Sucks.

Wasp: Haste for 1 round/class level, usable 1/day/tattoo possessed. In other words, Boots of Speed on crack.

White Mask: Blanket Immunity to any effect that would try to discern your alignment, Detect Thoughts, and Detect Lies. +10 on all Bluff checks.[/spoiler]


It isn't that powerful of a PrC, but it isn't that bad of a choice if you aren't concerned about your Unarmed Damage that much (there's other ways to boost it anyway). Also, if Epic Progression are allowed, Legacy Champion can be used to get more tattoos to work with.

[/spoiler]

 :facepalm ..... i knew i saw it somewhere .... but i like the White mask for the boost to Bluff(unnamed) very handy with a Social Skillmonkey Monk

 :D

Solo

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #242 on: July 14, 2010, 03:53:16 AM »
Not all of them require activation, iirc.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #243 on: July 14, 2010, 04:04:40 AM »
Not all of them require activation, iirc.

Six of them do: White Mask, Falcon, Crane, Crab, Ocean, and Pine


[spoiler][/spoiler]

carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #244 on: July 14, 2010, 04:05:21 AM »
here is a complete list:
[spoiler]Arrowroot: A character with this tattoo can heal wounds
in another character by touch. Each day he can cure a total
number of hit points equal to his Wisdom bonus × his class
level. A tattooed monk cannot heal himself, but he may
divide the curing among multiple recipients, and he doesn’t
have to use it all at once.

Bamboo: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character
with this tattoo can add the number of tattoos he possesses
as an enhancement bonus to his Constitution score. This
benefi t lasts for 1 round per class level.

Bat: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character
with this tattoo can add the number of tattoos he possesses
as an enhancement bonus to his Dexterity score.
This benefi t lasts for 1 round per class level.

Bellflower: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character with this tattoo can add his Charisma modifier as an enhancement bonus to any of his ability scores (including Charisma). This benefit lasts for 1 round per class level.

Butterfly: Once per day per tattoo he
possesses, a character with this tattoo
can add the number of tattoos he possesses
as an enhancement bonus to his
Wisdom score. This benefi t lasts for 1
round per class level.

Centipede: Once per week, a character
with this tattoo can use a shadow
walk effect. This ability allows the tattooed
monk to cross great distances,
but he must end his journey on the
Material Plane. A tattooed monk
must be at least 5th level to gain
this tattoo.

Chameleon: A character with this tattoo can use an alter self effect once per day per tattoo he possesses. This benefit lasts for 1 hour per class level.

Crab: A character with this tattoo gains damage reduction 2/magic. This damage reduction improves by 2 for each additional tattoo he possesses.

Crane: A character with this tattoo
gains a gradual immunity to bodily decay.
When a tattooed monk fi rst gains this tattoo, he gains immunity
to nonmagical diseases. When he gains his next tattoo
(whatever it may be), he acquires immunity to poison as well.
When he gains his next tattoo, he no longer takes ability score
penalties for aging, and he cannot be magically aged. (Any
aging penalties he may already have incurred remain in place.)
Bonuses still accrue, and the tattooed monk still dies of old age
when his time is up.

Chrysanthemum: Every hour that a character with this tattoo is in direct sunlight, he heals a number of hit points equal to his level. A daylight spell does not provoke this fast healing; the character must be exposed to real sunlight.

Dragon: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character
with this tattoo can use fire breath as if he had drunk an elixir
of fi re breath (see page 255 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide).

Dragonfly: Once per day, a character with this tattoo gains
a dodge bonus to his AC equal to the number of tattoos he
possesses. This benefi t lasts for 1 round per class level.

Falcon: A character with this tattoo is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Allies within 10 feet of his gain a morale bonus on their saving throws against fear effects equal to the tattooed monk’s Charisma bonus (if any) plus the number of tattoos he possesses.

Lion: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character with
this tattoo can smite a foe, gaining a +4 bonus on the attack
roll and a bonus on the damage roll equal to his class level on
a single melee attack. The tattooed monk must declare the
smite before making the attack. A missed attack uses up the
attempt.

Monkey: A character with this tattoo gains a +1 competence bonus per tattoo he possesses on all Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks.

Moon, Crescent: Once per day, a character with this tattoo
can use ethereal jaunt as a spell-like ability. A tattooed monk
must be at least 9th level to gain this tattoo.

Moon, Full: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character
with this tattoo can gain a +2 luck bonus on a single attack
roll, skill check, or ability check, as he calls on the power of
the full moon. This ability cannot be used during daylight
hours.

Mountain: A character with this tattoo can activate it to take
on the immovability of a mountain for as much as 1 round
per class level, gaining phenomenal durability though he
cannot move from the spot where he stands. He gains a +4
bonus to his Constitution and Wisdom scores. The increase
in Constitution increases the tattooed monk’s hit points by
2 points per level, but these hit points go away when the
ability’s duration expires or when the character chooses to
end it (a free action). These extra hit points are not lost fi rst
the way temporary hit points are. While using this ability, the
tattooed monk takes a –20 penalty on any Dexterity-based
skill checks. He is immune to bull rush and trip attacks. The
tattooed monk may use this ability once per day per tattoo he
possesses.

Nightingale: A character with this tattoo can heal wounds,
either his own or others’. He can heal a number of hit points
of damage equal to twice his current class level each day, and
he can spread this healing out among several uses.

Ocean: A character with this tattoo never needs to eat, sleep,
or drink.

Phoenix: A character with this tattoo gains spell resistance
equal to his class level + 15. A tattooed monk must be at least
7th level to gain this tattoo.

Pine: A character with this tattoo gains the Remain Conscious
feat.

Scorpion: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character
with this tattoo can force an opponent attacking him to use
his lowest ability score modifi er instead of his Strength or
Dexterity score modifier when making his attack roll. The
character can activate this tattoo on his opponent’s turn, but
he must declare it before the success or failure of the attack is
determined. The tattooed monk must be aware of the attack
and not fl at-footed in order to use this ability.

Spider: To use this tattoo, a character must have the Stunning
Fist feat. Instead of a stunning fi st attack, a character
with this tattoo can make an attack that delivers a contact
poison. The poison’s save DC is equal to 10 + the tattooed
monk’s class level + his Con modifier. The poison’s initial
and secondary damage is 2 points of Constitution damage.
Using this tattoo counts as one of the character’s stunning
fi st attacks for that day.

Sun: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character with
this tattoo can gain a +2 luck bonus on a single attack roll,
skill check, or ability check, as he calls on the full power
of the sun. This ability can only be used during daylight
hours.

Tiger: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character with
this tattoo can fight unarmed with a +1 bonus on all attack
rolls and deal an extra 1d6 points of damage with a successful
attack. This burst of martial arts ferocity lasts for 1 round per
class level.

Tortoise: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character with this tattoo can use his class level as the number of ranks in a skill he does not possess for the purpose of one skill check. For example, a 4th-level tattooed monk with two tattoos can make up to two Use Magic Device checks as if he had 4 ranks in that skill. He adds his Charisma modifier to the skill check as usual.

Unicorn: A character with this tattoo gains the power of
good fortune, usable once per day. This ability allows the
tattooed monk to reroll one d20 roll that he has just made.
The character must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s
worse than the original roll. The character must declare the
reroll before the result of the original roll has been determined.

Wasp: Once per day per tattoo he possesses, a character with this tattoo can use haste on herself. The benefit lasts for 1 round per class level.

White Mask: A character with this tattoo is immune to detect
thoughts, detect lies, and any attempt to magically discern his
alignment. He gains a +10 bonus on all Bluff checks.
[/spoiler]

 :D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2010, 04:16:08 AM by carnivore »

Ed-Zero

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #245 on: October 13, 2010, 05:43:21 AM »
So I have a interest in finding out what the correct expanded damage progression for unarmed damage is.. What follows is a whole bunch of stuff that I copied from multiple sources.. Really, I'd just like to find out which one is absolutely truly right.

++++++++++++++++++++

Unarmed Damage Progression

1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
2d10
3d6
3d8
3d10
etc
etc

Improved Natural Attack
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

Expanded table:

1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6, 14d6, 16d6, 18d6, 20d6

1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8, 14d8, 16d8, 18d8, 20d8


the DMG has 2d10:4d8:6d8:8d8:12d8

After that I had to extrapolate it.  And I was following the pattern (present there and the entry above with DC) of +2/+2/+4/+4/+6/+6/+8 dice.

Med sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=2d10
Large sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=4d8
Huge sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=6d8
Gargantuan sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=8d8
Colossal sized Monk 20 Unarmed Damage=12d8

SRD:
Table: Increased Damage By Size    Old Damage (Each)1     New Damage

1. Repeat the adjustment if the creature moves up more than one size category.

1d2    1d3
1d3    1d4
1d4    1d6
1d6    1d8
1d8    2d6
1d10    2d8
2d6    3d6
2d8    3d8

From Trip Monk-ey of Doom:
2d10-> 4d8-> 6d8-> 9d8-> 12d8-> 18d8-> 28d8-> 43d8-> 43d10-> 43d12-> 43d20+3d12

I will accept that 2d10 becoes 4d8 as I have found corroborating evidence in the player handbook. In equipment / weapons / weapon qualities / damage there is a table: Tiny and large weapon damage which specifically shows that 2d10 becomes 4d8.

Beyond this I really would use the improved natural attack progress as it was designed for this sort of thing.

So, with 7 advancements 4d8 would become 32d8.

2d10-> 4d8-> 6d8-> 8d8-> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d8 -> 32d8 -> 32d10 -> 32d12 -> 32d20


-

It should be like this:
2d10->4d8->6d8->8d8->12d8->16d8->24d8->32d8->48d8->64d8->96d8
96d8->96d10->96d12->96d20

Absolutely impresive, and following the rules.

For the people who don't get how increasing damage by size works, I'll try and explain how I think it works:

Each time you increase it, it doubles the number of dice in the previous size, keeping the dice size unchanged.

Let's check it in the INA chart:
1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

For 1d10/2d8/3d8 it doesn't apply, size the damage isn't high enough.

Now, starting at 4d8, you'll see that 6d8 = 2*3d8.
Then, 8d8 = 2*4d8.
After that, 12d8 = 2*6d8.
And we keep going like that:
12d8 -> 16d8 (2*8d8) -> 24d8 (2*12d8) -> 32d8 (2*16d8) -> 48d8 (2*24d8) -> 64d8 (2*32d8) -> 96d8 (2*48d8) .

After that, it would go: 96d8 -> 128d8 -> 192d8 -> 256d8 -> 384d8, but I doubt we'll get that high.


-

So the complete die increase progression should be +1/+1/+2/+2/+4/+4/+8/+8/+16/+16/+32/+32...

+N means +N d8 to the last total damage.

Too bad they don't have anything for a weapon that deals 2d10...

Assuming that a 2d10 weapon should use the 1d10 progression multiplied by two, it should go +2/+2/+4/+4/+8/+8/+16/+16/+32/+32/+64/+64.

Which is 2d10 ->4d8 ->6d8 ->10d8 ->14d8 ->22d8 ->30d8 ->46d8 ->62d8 ->94d8 ->126d8 ->190d8 ->254d8.

NOT 2d10->4d8->6d8->8d8->12d8->16d8->24d8->32d8->48d8->64d8->96d8
96d8->96d10.
CubeKnight
11-02-04, 06:18 PM
Almost. You skipped a "+2" after 6d8. From 4d8 to 6d8 it's only one +2, the second one is from 6d8 to 8d8. If you take 1d10's progression and multiply it by two, you get:

2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d8

To get this I just took the "1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8." and doubled the dice used.

EDIT: Something else. If you look at the dice closely, you'll see that, beggining at 8d8, all of them are exact multiples of 4 (8 = 4*2, 12=4*3, 16=4*4, 24=4*6), which is a clear sign of a regular progression, whereas, in the progression you post, they don't share a property like that.


-

Ah, right you are. So there is no existing progression beyond 24 (12) d8.

Which means that at that point, the character must switch to the MM progressions (which states "For each" rather then using absolute damage values).

So you take 24d8, and then for the next step it becomes 36d8 (each 2d8 ->3d8). Then 54d8 (each 2d8 ->3d8). Then 81d8. 81d8 creates a problem. It isn'r made of 2d8s. So, I guess the most logical thing is to convert 81 1d8s. That makes for 162d6.

Coninuing with that, we get a total progression of 2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8 -> 16d8 -> 24d8 -> 36d8 -> 54d8 -> 81d8 -> 162d6 -> 243d6 -> 243d8.

However, if you want to go by the letter of the rules (the RAW) you can't use the INA progression. Why? It dosen't deal with weapons that deal 2d10 damage. It dosen't have a "for each."

So, using the only RAW way to advance a 2d10 weapon by size, you use the Improving Monsters table. For each 1d10, you get 2d8. For each 2d8 you get 3d8. For each 3d8, you can do one of two things. 3d8 contains a 2d8 which you can convert to 3d8 and a 1d8 which you can convert to 2d6. That is probably the most RAW answer. However, 3d8+2d6 isn't as pretty as the other option, which is converting 3 1d8s into 3 2d6s.
So, 3d8 -> 6d6. 6d6 contains 3 2d6s, so it becomes 9d6. Using the prior logic, 9d6 becomes 9d8. And so on.

So you end up with 2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 9d8 -> 18d6 -> 27d6 -> 27d8 -> 54d6 -> 81d6 -> 81d8 -> 162d6 -> 243d6 -> 243d8.

That is the most logical RAW progression. Amazingly, 9th steps the progressions match up.

I would not consider 1*4, 1.5*4, 2*4, 3*4, 4*4, 6*4 a "clear progression."


-

You go like this:

4d8 (1*4) -> 6d8 ((1+.5)*4) -> 8d8 ((1+.5+.5)*4)) -> 12d8 ((1+.5+.5+1)*4) -> 16d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1)*4) -> 24d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1+2)*4) -> 32d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1+2+2)*4) -> 48d8 ((1+.5+.5+1+1+2+2+4)*4)

bananaphone

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #246 on: November 05, 2010, 08:41:08 AM »
One of my favorite builds is the Monk/Warmind using Tashalatora (love this feat!)

Monk-6/Shintao Monk-1/Warmind-10/ Whatever you want-3

Notes:
Monk-6 to meet the requirements for Shintao Monk(OA). (requires Lawful Good, +4 BAB, Knowledge(religion) 8 ranks, and Still Mind.)
Shintao Monk gets all Knowledges as class skills, thereby allowing you to reach the needed 8 Knowledge(psionics) ranks for Warmind. Shintao Monk-1 also grants a bonus feat!
Warmind gets you all the nifty goodies like Sweeping Strike and free-action buffs, as well as powers (small list, but you really only need a few key powers)

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #247 on: November 05, 2010, 08:57:03 AM »
Interesting.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #248 on: November 20, 2010, 05:35:19 AM »
One option I'm considering for my next monk is multiclassing with Ranger, and taking the Ascetic Hunter feat. It lets your Ranger levels stack with your Monk levels to determine Unarmed Damage. Not only does that open the oh-so-sneaky spell list, but you can also take the Wildshape Ranger Varient. Definitely a plus for anyone trying to build a stealth-based monk and the full BAB doesn't hurt. No idea how well this will work, but I'm going to give it a shot my next campaign. I'll post if it turns out to be awesome or incredibly bad.


Long-time Lurker, first time Poster. You've done an excellent job with this handbook.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #249 on: December 17, 2010, 09:07:59 PM »
A magic item that should be added: Fanged Ring, from Dragon Magic (page 101).  While worn, you get Improved Unarmed Strike (already had that), Improved Natural Attack for Unarmed Strike (nifty), and every time you critically hit with an unarmed strike you do 1 point of con damage.  It's 10kgp.  Not bad for a feat you wanted anyway and some con damage.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #250 on: December 25, 2010, 04:50:32 AM »
One of my favorite builds is the Monk/Warmind using Tashalatora (love this feat!)

Monk-6/Shintao Monk-1/Warmind-10/ Whatever you want-3

Notes:
Monk-6 to meet the requirements for Shintao Monk(OA). (requires Lawful Good, +4 BAB, Knowledge(religion) 8 ranks, and Still Mind.)
Shintao Monk gets all Knowledges as class skills, thereby allowing you to reach the needed 8 Knowledge(psionics) ranks for Warmind. Shintao Monk-1 also grants a bonus feat!
Warmind gets you all the nifty goodies like Sweeping Strike and free-action buffs, as well as powers (small list, but you really only need a few key powers)

Unless you have 18 Int, you would need 2 levels of Shintao if you don't want cross-class skills...

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #251 on: January 10, 2011, 09:42:23 AM »
here is a surprisingly Effective CORE only Pixie Monk

Pixie

Monk 16

Attributes: (32pt buy)
10 Str(14- 4 Racial)
30 Dex(12 +8 Racial +6 gloves +4 Inherent)
20 Con(14 +6 Item)
14 Int(8 +6 Racial)
36 Wis(18 +4 Racial +4 lvls +4 Inherent +6 Amulet)
14 Cha(8 +6 Racial)

Feats:
Dodge(Pixie bonus)
Alertness(Pixie bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(Pixie bonus)
Improved Unarmed Strike(Monk Bonus)
Stunning Fist(Monk Bonus)
Combat Reflexes(Monk Bonus)
Improved Disarm(Monk Bonus)

1st lvl: Flyby Attack
3rd lvl: Ability Focus(Stunning Fist)
6th lvl: Improved Natural Attack(Unarmed Strike)
9th lvl: Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)
12th lvl: Wingover
15th lvl: Run

focusing on Speed and hit and Run Tactics(Flyby/Wingover) .... she can Stun Enemies easily(DC 35) and still do 2d10 unarmed, also 1/week has a Death Attack DC 31(Fort) Quivering palm

but most all enemies will have a Hard time hurting or even hitting her(AC 48+ unbuffed, SR 31, DR 10/Cold Iron, Greater Invisiblity) ... did i mention her Unbuffed Speed: 70' Land, 110' Fly(Good) .... Run 350' Land, 550' Fly

 :D

Where do you get Alertness and Weapon Finesse as Pixie bonus feats? All it says in the MM for bonus feats *for playable pixie characters* is Dodge.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #252 on: January 10, 2011, 10:35:27 AM »
Weapon Finesse was errata'ed to be a bonus feat as well, otherwise the example pixie couldn't qualify for it. Alertness is erroneous, though, it's only a standard feat that the MM Pixie usually takes (again, after errata).
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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #253 on: January 10, 2011, 01:22:21 PM »
correct ... will remove Alertness .... sorry for the inconvienience

 :D

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #254 on: January 10, 2011, 09:28:24 PM »
Weapon Finesse was errata'ed to be a bonus feat as well, otherwise the example pixie couldn't qualify for it. Alertness is erroneous, though, it's only a standard feat that the MM Pixie usually takes (again, after errata).

Either my MM errata is out of date, or I'm losing my mind, because I'm not finding Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #255 on: January 10, 2011, 10:52:46 PM »
Weapon Finesse Feat
Some creatures that have this feat lack the +1 base
attack bonus prerequisite. Since bonus feats do not
require the creature to fulfill any feat prerequisites (see
page 301 in the Monster Manual), make the Weapon
Finesse feat a bonus feat and add an additional feat (see
the table below).

Weapon Finesse Bonus Feat Changes
Creature Feat Change
Pseudodragon Alertness +2 on Listen and Spot checks
Sprite, Grig Stealthy +2 on Hide and Move Silently checks
Sprite, Nixie Alertness +2 on Listen and Spot checks
Sprite, Pixie Alertness +2 on Listen and Spot checks
Swarm, Rat Stealthy +2 on Hide and Move Silently checks
...

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #256 on: January 11, 2011, 01:42:35 AM »
Going through this handbook, I read
Quote
Initiate of Draconic Mysteries-Drac: This is another great PrC for monks.  The unarmed damage boosts are spread out more, but at level 9 this class gains a x3 crit on unarmed strikes.  The entry requirements are a pain though, just because of the skills.  And the PrC doesn’t lend much besides these things, spell resistance that’s negligible, evasion (which you already have), and darkvision.  You can scare really low level things!
this, and missed a bit the part where you can shapechange into a dragon for an hour. Dunno if this is still updated, but seems mentionable to me.

GrokThis

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #257 on: January 13, 2011, 05:57:20 PM »
Weapon Finesse Feat
Some creatures that have this feat lack the +1 base
attack bonus prerequisite. Since bonus feats do not
require the creature to fulfill any feat prerequisites (see
page 301 in the Monster Manual), make the Weapon
Finesse feat a bonus feat and add an additional feat (see
the table below).

Weapon Finesse Bonus Feat Changes
Creature Feat Change
Pseudodragon Alertness +2 on Listen and Spot checks
Sprite, Grig Stealthy +2 on Hide and Move Silently checks
Sprite, Nixie Alertness +2 on Listen and Spot checks
Sprite, Pixie Alertness +2 on Listen and Spot checks
Swarm, Rat Stealthy +2 on Hide and Move Silently checks
...

Okay, thanks. Staring me right in the face.  :rollseyes

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #258 on: January 13, 2011, 08:19:56 PM »
Odd page confusion led me to make an out-of-place post.
I don't employ memes. Mass-produced ammunition, even from reputable manufacturers, tends to malfunction on occasion.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #259 on: January 17, 2011, 01:33:55 PM »
Seeing all the calculations about unarmed damage progression is making my head hurt. But I thank you all who have gone through the effort to do so.

My question is rather simple.... is Greater Mighty Wallop a legitimate target of the Empower Spell metamagic feat?

The way GMW is worded I would think that even if we empowered it we could still only reach up to collossal size for extra damage.
The upside of the coin is that this would let us get the full benefit of GMW earlier than normal.

Any thoughts?
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