Author Topic: Monk's Handbook  (Read 252402 times)

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Blade2718

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2008, 04:15:19 AM »
If you're going to use a camerdine monk then knowledge devotion becomes an excellent feat for a monk. It'll give you all knowledge skill as class skills and bonuses to hit and damage based on your knowledge check. It's basically a non-crappy version of the weapon focus and weapon specialization feats..... except it costs only one feat instead ofseveral and it applies regardless of what weapon you're using.
Actually, just one Knowledge.  Just make it a good one like Arcana or the Planes.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2008, 04:32:01 AM »
Monks already get arcana and religion as class skills, probably nature or the planes are the best bet.

carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2008, 12:21:48 PM »
to get the boost from Knowledge Devotion.... you only need these Knowledge Skills:

Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
Dungeoneering (aberrations, caverns, oozes, spelunking)
*Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)
Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin)
Religion (gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead)
The planes (the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, outsiders, elementals, magic related to the planes)

Ranger gives dungeoneering/nature
Monk gives arcana/religion
Knowledge Devotion can give one more.... i would suggest The Planes

*Local may not be used by some DMs..... check with yours first to see if its needed


although to avoid any problems.... just take the feats: Education(makes All Knowledge Skills class skills) and Knowledge Devotion... then there is no problem
 :D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 12:24:14 PM by carnivore »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2008, 06:21:36 PM »
Monks already get arcana and religion as class skills, probably nature or the planes are the best bet.
I would suggest Know: Psionics... so you can get into Warmind.  :D
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Arquebuz

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #104 on: October 03, 2008, 07:15:45 AM »
Ummm... I'm sure this will reveal my status as total noob, but are all of the monk's damage increases coming from size boosts after 2d8?  I thought the DMG said that the unarmed damage stops at... lvl 16 (2d8).  But wait, then the PHB monk chart has it cap at lvl 20 with 2d10.  Confusing and contradictory.  INA probably works past some of it, because it isn't specifically a boost to UAS, but how can my monk progress past that 2d10, even if I'm ignoring the "nothing past lvl 16" BS.

I'm also worried by this tidbit I read in the FAQ:
"Does a monk with a monk’s belt and the Superior Unarmed
Strike feat benefit from both, or does just the highest benefit
apply?
In this case, the better benefit will prevail. These effects
technically do not have a bonus, so they would not use the
stacking rules. One effect will end up overshadowing the other
."

Wouldn't that apply to the monk's tattoo and such as well?

I'm working on a build that applies carmendine monk, INA, SUS, and will employ a monk's belt/tattoo.  Is my DM going to shank me when I get the damage up to 4d8 before 20th without a size increase? 

Sorry if these answers are obvious.  The monk baffles.
Thanks! :wall

carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #105 on: October 03, 2008, 11:19:17 AM »
some boosts move the Unarmed Damage further up the Progression for a Monk(Virtual Monk levels)... other boosts increase the Dice size, other increase effective Character size.... what you are suggesting does this:

carmendine monk...... up the Progression for a Monk
INA ....................... Increases unarmed damage based on Size
SUS....................... up the Progression for a Monk(non stacking with monk belt)
monk's belt.............. up the Progression for a Monk(non stacking with SUS)
tattoo.................... up the Progression for a Monk(non stacking with SUS or Belt)

the stacking will depend on how your DM rules it ..... personally i would allow them to stack, the FAQ does not, your DM may differ

 :D

dman11235

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #106 on: October 04, 2008, 02:20:39 AM »
Uhhh...those things stack for monk level.  No reason for them not to.  The FAQ is wrong here.  It is not a bonus, and so no stacking rules apply.  They just boost your effective monk level, and don't even reference a base.

After you get level 20 damage, you'll need to use dice size increases (size increases, things like FotF) to boost damage.
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Arquebuz

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #107 on: October 04, 2008, 03:24:35 AM »
Thank you, sirs.

I agree that the faq is wrong, and it seems wholly unfair to gimp the class by making an exception to the unnamed bonus stacking rules.   You've also clarified how I need to make the progression work.  All I need now is for my DM to never look at the faq! :eh


dman11235

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2008, 04:06:31 AM »
You could explain to him that the FAQ is not RAW, and as such it's not a valid thing to bring up in rules questions.  Ignore for a moment that it's official, it's wrong all too often, same with The Sage, CustServ, and the Rules Compendium.
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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #109 on: October 11, 2008, 10:29:07 PM »
Say, how good are the Decisive Blow ACF from the PHBII and the Versitile Strike feat for monks?

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carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2008, 12:00:15 AM »
Say, how good are the Decisive Blow ACF from the PHBII and the Versitile Strike feat for monks?

Decisive Strike is great for a Charging Build with Robilars Gambit.... since it Doubles Damage to a Single Attack... its easy to boost that Damage... also it affects all AoOs you make... thus Robilars Gambit allows you to make an AoO everytime someone attacks you

Versatile Strike can be useful in overcomeing some DR(DR /Slashing, DR/Piercing).... and it could be combined with some other class features from other PrCs(Dervish Dance,etc...) .... its ok, but not really needed

 :D

dman11235

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2008, 01:25:36 AM »
Decisive Strike is a full-round action (not full-attack), which means that it cannot be used in conjunction with a charge.  I always thought that it was pretty dang good for AoO based builds though.  Definitely sucks for non-AoO based builds.

Versatile Unarmed Strike just sucks.  I went over it in the first post.  You can just pay money, and therefore it's kinda worthless.
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carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2008, 09:40:40 PM »
opps ... my appologies.... didnt read it closely enough... just skimmed it ....  :'(

 :D

AndyJames

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #113 on: October 21, 2008, 03:38:26 AM »
Uhhh...those things stack for monk level.  No reason for them not to.  The FAQ is wrong here.  It is not a bonus, and so no stacking rules apply.  They just boost your effective monk level, and don't even reference a base.

After you get level 20 damage, you'll need to use dice size increases (size increases, things like FotF) to boost damage.
I would go for this interpretation as well. Otherwise, all those builds with multiple caster PrCs would end up not stacking where the +1 caster level is concerned... :P

pfooti

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #114 on: October 26, 2008, 10:34:48 PM »
What do we think of something like Monk 3 / Psionic Fist 1 / Monk 8 / Psionic Fist 8 in a Core + PHB2 only game? It seems like the one power at level 4 (clearly Expansion) is worth the BAB hit. If I could get Talashatora or something like that, it'd be better. But with just core, it seems pretty flexible, with a reasonable set of abilities. In this campaign, monks get their flurry attacks as a swift action, so the extra attack at level 11 seems like it's worth staying in monk for.

My feat progression would probably be something like:
1: Ability Focus (stunning fist)
(human): Open
3 Wild Talent
6 Improved Natural Attack
9 Open
12 Open

I was considering going the spring attack route, since I could get some extra attacks on the spring attack, but that's a lot of feats - Human, 9 and 12 before I actually see spring attack.

Another option would be psychic warrior / slayer instead, which has a lot of potential, but I note a comment on page 3 of this thread that points out how Psionic Fists get more powers and PP/day than a psychic warrior. Psywar would, however, clear up some feat issues, and enable the spring attack (or the TWF) chain.

If this isn't appropriate here, I could always make a thread. But I'm not looking for full-on builds or anything, just general reactions to the idea. I'm still kicking around a lot of potential builds for this mostly-core game.

carnivore

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #115 on: October 26, 2008, 11:12:37 PM »
in a Mostly Core game..... i would suggest this:

Monk 11 ...... to get Greater Flurry.. then :

Psion(Egoist) 1/ Slayer 8.... get 8th lvl Manifester(58 PP+ bonus(Int), powers Known: 5@1st lvl, 4 @ 2nd lvl, 4 @3rd lvl, 4 @4th lvl... can have Metamorphosis)... nice class abilities:Cerebral Blind, Breach Power Resistance, Favored Enemy(weak), Enemy Sense, Brain Nausea, Lucid Buffer

any PW power you want... just get it with Expanded Knowledge

the above build will still get:

BAB +16

to focus more on combat... try this:

Monk 11/ Warmind 9

similar... 58PP+bonus(Wis) but Wisdom based Powers from PW list... 2 @1st lvl, 1 @2nd lvl, 1 @3rd lvl, 1 @4th lvl
very nice class abilities: Sweeping Strike, DR 3/- constant, 3/day boost to AC, Str, Con


Monk 11/ Psion 1/ Slayer 8.... very strong with Metamorphosis

Monk 11/ Warmind 9....... very strong unbuffed, or buffed without using PP


 :D








 


pfooti

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #116 on: October 26, 2008, 11:19:55 PM »
Hmm, thanks for the ideas. It'll come down to what kind of stats I roll, then. If I get a decent Int, the slayer looks neat, and has more feats.

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #117 on: October 27, 2008, 01:01:46 AM »
What do we think of something like Monk 3 / Psionic Fist 1 / Monk 8 / Psionic Fist 8 in a Core + PHB2 only game? It seems like the one power at level 4 (clearly Expansion) is worth the BAB hit.
You can't qualify for PF this early. Monk 6/PF 10/Monk +4 (or Warmind) works.

Quote
In this campaign, monks get their flurry attacks as a swift action, so the extra attack at level 11 seems like it's worth staying in monk for.
You get one or two extra attacks as a swift action ? That does improve the monk.

Don't forget that the Egoist doesn't get Expansion on his list, nor Vampiric Blade & co.

Straight PsyWar would be fairly solid (you actually have more powers known and more PPs than the PF at all levels), but the Psionic Fist build above is fine too. Compared to Monk 11 you get to use powers way earlier : so list the powers you're interested in and you'll see if they're worth delaying/losing the extra attack.
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dman11235

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #118 on: October 27, 2008, 01:47:07 AM »
If you're using a psionic class, I must ask: is Tashalatora allowed?  If so, only 6 levels of monk at max, since Tash advances Flurry iirc.  Even so, is an extra attack worth 5 levels?  With just about nothing else (healing so limited it doesn't matter, immunity to poisons, extra 10' of speed, and Ki Strike (law) which you almost never use except against Slaads), I don't think it's worth it.  You'd be better off advancing your psionics.  You just have to ask yourself: is one attack worth 5 levels in a class with medium BAB?
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pfooti

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Re: Monk's Handbook
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2008, 12:48:32 AM »
Talashatora isn't allowed, sadly. It's SRD plus the PHB2, only. I could go something like Monk 6 as a prefix to the psionic classes, although the DM is enforcing the no-mixing rule as well, so anything other than Psionic Fist would be a one-way trip. The extra flurry attack at 11 is also part of the swift-action flurry, which is pretty nice, although it's kind of obviated if I just get psionic lion's charge. I don't want to derail this thread any further, though, so I'll collect my thoughts and post something in the normal forum.