Author Topic: TOUHOU!!!  (Read 90913 times)

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #260 on: April 19, 2011, 09:07:08 PM »
It would be very disappointing if Mima wasn't in a Touhou game about freaking ghosts and undead. It seems like the perfect opportunity for her return.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #261 on: April 19, 2011, 09:21:25 PM »
It would be very disappointing if Mima wasn't in a Touhou game about freaking ghosts and undead. It seems like the perfect opportunity for her return.
It's also the perfect opportunity for her to not return, given that we know ZUN is his fanbase's biggest troll. :p
More importantly, I'm not sure of Mima's legal status. I know ZUN doesn't even have the rights to most of the PC-98 series (his old high school club or so technically holds them), so it's possible Mima herself falls under that.
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oslecamo

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #262 on: April 19, 2011, 11:55:36 PM »
By that logic, wouldn't Reimu, Marisa, Yuka, Alice and heck, Touhou itself be out of Zun's legal reach?

Also, notice that altough a ghost, Mima was never much on the undead business. She herself insists she's just a normal human. Her business is evocation, not necromancy.

Agita

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #263 on: April 20, 2011, 12:11:12 AM »
By that logic, wouldn't Reimu, Marisa, Yuka, Alice and heck, Touhou itself be out of Zun's legal reach?
I have no idea. I'm only parroting what I've been told. Presumably he got the rights to at least those four somehow, whether by permission or by buying them. Note also, however, that all their designs are at least nominally different from what they were in the PC-98 series, and connections to PC-98 canon have never been made explicit, only alluded to (most blatantly with Alice).
*shrug*
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #264 on: April 20, 2011, 12:28:39 AM »
By that logic, wouldn't Reimu, Marisa, Yuka, Alice and heck, Touhou itself be out of Zun's legal reach?
I have no idea. I'm only parroting what I've been told. Presumably he got the rights to at least those four somehow, whether by permission or by buying them. Note also, however, that all their designs are at least nominally different from what they were in the PC-98 series, and connections to PC-98 canon have never been made explicit, only alluded to (most blatantly with Alice).
*shrug*

The biggest exception is Yuuka. I don't believe her outfit has changed at all from her pre-PoFV days.


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veekie

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #265 on: April 20, 2011, 12:33:54 AM »
By that logic, wouldn't Reimu, Marisa, Yuka, Alice and heck, Touhou itself be out of Zun's legal reach?
I have no idea. I'm only parroting what I've been told. Presumably he got the rights to at least those four somehow, whether by permission or by buying them. Note also, however, that all their designs are at least nominally different from what they were in the PC-98 series, and connections to PC-98 canon have never been made explicit, only alluded to (most blatantly with Alice).
*shrug*
Reimu - Different hair, different outfit, no turtle, Yin Yang Orbs are effectively public domain.
Marisa - See Reimu, Mini Hakkero makes no presence. Pre Windows spellcards only recently resurrected(Shoot the Moon and Stardust Reverie).
Yuka - Dunno
Alice - Loli->Adult.

Touhou - Used to be called Team Shanghai Alice no?
Gensokyo - If you use the actual meaning it's pretty generic, equivalent to Dream-ville.

In general, I see it as them not pressing the case initially, and now that ZUN is a big name, its more profitable to live and let live(IIRC the Seihou games are done under a similar tacit )
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"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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Nick

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #266 on: April 20, 2011, 12:36:24 AM »
Wait...why does everyone want Mima back?
"You'll still be living in caves."
"Hell I don't mind that."
[spoiler][/spoiler]
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veekie

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #267 on: April 20, 2011, 12:51:18 AM »
Marisa's Masta. Antagonist for the first games. Protagonist for pre windows games.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Agita

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #268 on: April 20, 2011, 12:52:45 AM »
Wait...why does everyone want Mima back?
She seems to be a popular character. For my part, I couldn't care less either way - PC-98 was almost literally before my time, and I haven't seen many doujin depictions of her that were terribly interesting. So if she does come back, I'd be effectively looking at her as a new character.

EDIT: I hear she and Marisa also started becoming too similar for Mima's good or something, but this is again third-hand.
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oslecamo

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #269 on: April 20, 2011, 01:18:22 AM »
Looks Change-eerr, people, that happens like every  game, specially for the main characters. Marisa is a redhead the first time she appears, then blonde, both in 98 games. The wiki even bothers to point out the diferences in each individual game!

Connections to the old games-I believe that's only Zun's policy of not liking to spoil the end of the games. Mind you, both Reimu and Marisa aknowledge having faced Yuka as a big bad in the past when they meet her again in PoFV. Shoot the Moon apeared in IN, wich isn't that recent. Mini-Hakkero does appear in the fighting games. And the official mangas like SiB.

Alice loli-> adult: Magic perspective. It happens to a lot of characters. Just take a look at this oficial Marisa

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Like Zun himself said, never trust perspectives in Touhou games.

Wait...why does everyone want Mima back?
She's probably the third most important character in the 98 games, right after Reimu and Marisa herselves.  That girls like Alice and Yuka got comebacks but she didn't is considered maximum trolling by ZUN.

Prime32

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #270 on: April 20, 2011, 01:27:36 AM »
By that logic, wouldn't Reimu, Marisa, Yuka, Alice and heck, Touhou itself be out of Zun's legal reach?
I have no idea. I'm only parroting what I've been told. Presumably he got the rights to at least those four somehow, whether by permission or by buying them. Note also, however, that all their designs are at least nominally different from what they were in the PC-98 series, and connections to PC-98 canon have never been made explicit, only alluded to (most blatantly with Alice).
*shrug*

The biggest exception is Yuuka. I don't believe her outfit has changed at all from her pre-PoFV days.
Pants->skirt, and shorter hair. That's it.

Wait...why does everyone want Mima back?
She's the Kamina to Marisa's Simon, basically. (compare scenes like 2:24 and 0:41 :p)
And Twilight Spark can't hurt.

There were five PC-98 games:
Highly Responsive to Prayers: 4th boss
Story of Eastern Wonderland: Final boss, Marisa uses simplified versions of her attacks and treats her with great respect
Phantasmagoria of Dimension Dream: Playable character
Lotus Land Story: Does not appear
Mystic Square: Playable character

So yeah, she was the second most important character after Reimu... before the Windows games. And Marisa of all people is respectful to her.
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Nick

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #271 on: April 20, 2011, 01:30:33 AM »
Meh. If she comes back its a new character to me.
"You'll still be living in caves."
"Hell I don't mind that."
[spoiler][/spoiler]
befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.

oslecamo

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #272 on: April 20, 2011, 01:35:58 AM »
So yeah, she was the second most important character after Reimu... before the Windows games.
Hey, Marisa appeared in four of the 98 PC games, Mima only in three!

And Marisa of all people is respectful to her.
Naturally since Mima was the one who taught her all the magic basis. Marisa owes it to her the fact that she can now fly inside people's houses, blow them up and take their precious things.

Nick

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #273 on: April 20, 2011, 03:48:24 AM »
More Yoshika

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
"You'll still be living in caves."
"Hell I don't mind that."
[spoiler][/spoiler]
befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system.

veekie

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #274 on: April 20, 2011, 07:50:32 AM »
In Soviet China Yuyuko Gets Eaten.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

veekie

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #275 on: April 21, 2011, 06:27:08 PM »
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

oslecamo

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #276 on: April 22, 2011, 01:08:34 AM »
Anyone able to make head or tail of this?

Touhou Director's cut-Alice's ascension.

[spoiler]
Dolls, western house in the forest, blonde city-sect girl who stops being human. That's Alice Margatroid allright.

She was part of a group of eight persons. Upon entering Gengyoko she was changed, and arranged for the deaths of all her old companions as they travel deeper inside the forest. She ends up taking the western style house for her own before killing the last companion with cursed dolls. Kaguya, fairies and probably some other youkai make guest appearances.

And Reimu Harukei, shrine maiden of paradise, hardly gives a damn. Seven deaths? Pfft. She won't be bothered by anything less than the skies themselves being covered in darkness or an eternal winter falling over the land.

[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #277 on: April 22, 2011, 02:04:50 AM »
Well, I get the gist, but the specifics are fun to puzzle out.
Also, which of the eight is Alice :D

1st - Met Kaguya, took the branch of Hourai....a branch from the danmaku tree. Pichuun~. Most Curious One lost.
2nd - Met Reimu dancing. Fastest watched until it rained. Reimu notes that one of them is neither human nor youkai.
3rd - Met ?. Most beautiful kidnapped. Given the song attached it's probably Yuka or given the sleeping under cherry tree, Yuyuko.
4th - Foreign style party at ?. Youngest beheaded after sneaking into somewhere dark after the party. Song matches Meiling, which implies the party is at the SDM(and the idiot wandered into the basement and got pichuun~)
5th - Unknown location, coward ran off and tried to commit suicide. Fail to be an hero. Note that the coward is pretending to be human.
6th - Somewhere dark. Wisest did not attempt to escape and got eaten by a grue. Unknown culprit, uncertain fate(maybe Flan, it matches one of her spellcards). Note. This phase started with five party members. They had lost the Curious, Beautiful and Youngest before this. Fastest, Coward and Youngest confirmed to be still in party indirectly. Something weird about dolls mentioned, particularly where a bird carried a doll away. The doll is presumably a party member, further mentions of dolls are presumably party members as well.
7th - Going towards new home. Some mention of a half bird youkai.
8th - Arrived at western house in forest(Alice's place probably). Lots of food. 4 remain. Fastest, Youngest, Coward and an unknown. A 'doll' got beheaded, its one of those who aren't currently with the party, so its probably the Beautiful who got kidnapped earlier.
9th - Tea time at the house. Most Mature got drugged by a love potion, presumably provided by Marisa. Fastest, Youngest and Coward left. Drinking magic mushroom extract isn't good for health.
10th - Paranoia after the 'death' of the Mature. Most Wary suddenly finds himself crucified. Coward must have overlapped with one of the others(Wary?). Possible time paradox with adult and young Alice.
11th - Fastest(who was dreaming of seeing Reimu) falls after seeing someone blond in red and white. Music is clear, this is Flan. Death by hanging.
12th - Last survivor is the Coward(since last survivor did not hang self to death successfully). Last survivor proceeds to now hang self?
13th - Reimu:"Eh, weirdos." Reimu has seen 'young girl' before. Probably Alice.

Fates:
Curious - Beheaded at Kaguyas
Fastest - Survived being the narrator once, then got Flan'ed by hanging.
Beautiful - Kidnapped at Yuka/Yuyuko's, might have been beheaded at 8
Youngest - Beheaded at the SDM
Coward - Survived hanging as the narrator. Not human(or at least thinks that way). Hangs at the end.
Wisest - Lost in the darkness. Might have been beheaded at 8. or Flan'ed.
Mature - Poisoned by love potion. 'Sleeping'. Male.
Wary - Crucified.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 02:10:52 AM by veekie »
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Sinfire Titan

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #278 on: April 22, 2011, 02:18:11 AM »
Has there been any news on Ten Desires' OST? Or was there no sound test in the demo?


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: TOUHOU!!!
« Reply #279 on: April 22, 2011, 02:25:31 AM »
Has there been any news on Ten Desires' OST? Or was there no sound test in the demo?
The tracks on the demo have been on youtube for a while.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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