Author Topic: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.  (Read 6725 times)

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Kuroimaken

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Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« on: November 18, 2010, 05:47:32 PM »
So I had this awesome idea. Why not make a monk-like character out of a pixie?

The basic goals of this attempt will be as follows:

A) The character must be able to deliver multiple unarmed attacks against touch AC (or, failing that, with absurd to-hit bonuses) while keeping the enemy flat-footed (so as to abuse Iaijutsu Focus).

B) The character must be a Pixie by race.

I've got some of it lined up at least (all sources allowed, though please refrain from Dragon stuff if you can...):

Stat distribution:

STR: Dump stat. You're a pixie so it sucks by default.
DEX: Don't need to put that many points here, what with the +8 to dexterity, but don't dump it either.
CON: Similar to DEX. This is D&D so this is never a dump stat.
INT: You have good bonuses to this already.
WIS: Likewise. We're not gonna be using stunning fist anyway, most likely.
CHA: Should be high. We're gonna try to whore this out quite a bit.

The "building blocks" of it make things... trickier, however.

Point the first: getting IF as a class skill.

According to this topic, the only way to add any one skill to your list is the Aereni Focus feat, from Eberron. You're a pixie, so that's a no-go...

Point the second: getting more attacks.

The relatively simple way of doing this is either using Chaos Monk or the regular Monk's flurry of suck. I could use some advisement on how to do this.

Point the third: hitting as touch attacks, or getting high bonuses to hit.

The simplest way I can consider is the Deep Impact feat. However, it's only good for one attack at a time. Wraithstrike COULD be a go, however. Of course, access to it is pretty much limited.

Point the fourth: flat-footed goodness.

Confound the big folk is pretty much awesome for this purpose. Sadly, it requires a two-round setup (thankfully, greater invis helps you with the enemy not knowing you're there...). Ways to improve this would be appreciated.

Point the fifth: whoring out CHA - and other ways of increasing your damage.

Gauntlet of Heartfelt Blows is really good for this. It adds your CHA modifier as fire damage to your melee or melee touch attacks. (Hot blood much?) Snowflake Wardance + Adaptative Strike (which lets you change your unarmed attack damage to slashing, thus overcoming the limitation of the feat  ;)) could help with hit while Slippers of Battledancing adds your Cha again for damage. Shadow Blade could also be potentially awesome given your naturally high dex.

Point the sixth: which classes to use?

Vanilla monk sucks as a base, but could prove an interesting two-level dip, specially considering UA's alternative combat styles. Plain Fighter gives us much-needed feats. Unarmed Swordsage gives us plenty of goodness (free WF to unarmed strikes while in a Shadow Hand stance, access to Shadow Blade by level 5, Assassin stance for sneak attacks which would increase damage along with IF). BINDER, of all things, gives us Ronove (a Vestige that provides you with IUS and monk damage with a level equal to your EBL) and Otiax (which allows you to strike as touch attacks from ten feet away, giving you a little range at least). Lots of choices, but it's hard to pick the best of them.

So how shall we go about this?
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 07:20:49 PM »
Is this your inspiration?
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 07:56:06 PM »
Is this your inspiration?
Not at all, but thanks for pointing me to that comic.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


carnivore

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2010, 01:40:01 AM »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2010, 01:44:11 AM »
Yeah, but that's a feat only available for the generic class system.

Skill prodigy is much better anyway.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

carnivore

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 01:52:40 AM »
Yeah, but that's a feat only available for the generic class system.

Skill prodigy is much better anyway.
actually that is a Common missconception .... it is not even in the same chapter as Generic Classes ... it has Nothing to do with them ... that is why i included the Page number ... it is Valid for any classes

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2010, 01:53:44 AM »
i have a fun build i will post later

 :D

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2010, 01:58:41 AM »
Right.  It isn't the generic classes, it's the alternate skill system

Quote from: MAXIMUM RANKS, LIMITED CHOICES variant skill system
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Endarire

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2010, 04:30:34 AM »
WhirlPounce Barbarian1 helps.  Also, Hood, just adjusted for your Pixieness.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Shadowhunter

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2010, 04:37:54 AM »
Quote
Point the first: getting IF as a class skill.

According to this topic, the only way to add any one skill to your list is the Aereni Focus feat, from Eberron. You're a pixie, so that's a no-go...
Factotums gain IF as a class skill. Just saying.

Quote
Point the fourth: flat-footed goodness.

Confound the big folk is pretty much awesome for this purpose. Sadly, it requires a two-round setup (thankfully, greater invis helps you with the enemy not knowing you're there...). Ways to improve this would be appreciated.

There is a good hint here, but I'll just quote it instead.

Quote
Remember, Invisibility negates your opponents Dex to AC but does not technically make him flat-footed.
But attacking from Hiding does.
As per Rules Compendium, page 92, you can Hide at a -20 penalty whilst attacking.
Invisibility grants you a +20 bonus to hide when someone attempts to spot you.
By maximizing your Hide then this becomes a contest between your Hide and his Spot.

All good and RAW.
There's also a few good hints how to take advantage of Dexterity to damage, sneak attacks and flat-footed bonuses.

As for (a)busing CHA, here are my go-to's:
Paladin of X for saves
Blackguard. Same reason.
Ranger - Eldeen Ranger 3 levels (the fae-related one, Greensingers might be the name). Same reason.
Hexblade - Same reason + debuff.
Bard - Snowflake Wardance. Slipers of Battledancing. Either Nixies Grace or the other one, whichever one gives you CHA to AC as a deflection bonus.
Bard + Chaos Monk + Acestic Mage = Cha to AC and more attacks.
Bard + Arcane Duelist 2 levels = Cha to AC.
Uneelie template.

Note the fluff synergy between Pixies, Unseelie Court, Greensingers, Chaos Monk, Paladin of Slaughter and Blackguard.

Iajutsu Master. Obvious.

As for touch attacks, Wraithstrike is your best bet.
It's a Wiz/Sorc or Assassin spell... hrrm.

Just a thought, don't know if it works out, but something like this maybe:
Factotum 1.
Bard X.
Passive Way Chaos Monk 2 levels. More attacks and two of the feats needed for Spell Dancer.
Spell Dancer 2. for persist-tech.
Sublime Chord X for Wraithstrike.
Sprinkle with whatever tickles your fancy from the list above.

Max IF and Hide appart from the skills you need to qualify for the PrC's.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2010, 10:37:43 AM »
Mkay, I'll check those sources and get back to ya. Keep 'em coming though.  :P
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


skydragonknight

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2010, 11:23:33 AM »
Ascetic Mage Monk/Sorc into Abjurant Champion? Good AC, with Greater Mighty Wallop to make the base damage decent.

Edit: there's actually a swift action enchantment spell that makes an enemy flat-footed. Might be viable (use extend spell to combine with wraithstrike) up to mid levels.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 11:26:01 AM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2010, 12:29:56 PM »
I wanted to avoid mage'ing it up as much as I could. Everyone knows that sorc/wizards make better monks than monks...
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2010, 02:22:55 PM »
Battle dancer for cha to ac?
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Shadowhunter

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2010, 02:51:15 PM »
Battle dancer for cha to ac?

That was the one I forgot. I knew there was something I'd forgotten in my usual bunch of stuff.
IIRC, Spell Dancer and Battle Dancer share prereq-feats.



I really should sum up Mr. Ego someday, just to have everything on one place.
Mr. Ego is my Knight of the Unseelie Court, a very chaotic evil man.
IIRC it was something like:
Human Bard 5/Passive Way Chaos Monk 2/Ranger 1/Battle Dancer 1/Hexblade 2/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Blackguard 2/Arcane Duellist 2/Eldeen Ranger 3
Defensivly, he has
3x Cha to AC
3x to saves, x4 against spells and spell-likes

His offense is a bit lacking, it's the standard Power Attack - Shocktrooper line, with the prereqs. for Blackguard making it more or less mandatory.
It's still a work in progress.
Anyway. I'm straying of topic here.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 02:56:07 PM »
Battle dancer is a base class (dragon compendium)
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Shadowhunter

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 03:56:50 PM »
Battle dancer is a base class (dragon compendium)

 :embarrassed

Ok, let's try this one more time then:
"Ah, I knew there was something I had forgotten. Two things in fact. The Battle Dancer base class for CHA and the PrC Arcane Duellist, for the same reason."

Alright, let's see what I have forgotten now then...
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 06:14:50 PM »
So, it seems points one, five and six are more or less taken care of. What about points two, three and four?  :P
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Shadowhunter

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 06:34:28 PM »
I thought my comment on Hiding as part of a full attack action took care of the flat-footed business?
Or do you want more options?

Also, Chaos Monk for Flailing Strike as you've already mentioned.
TWF/Snap Kick, obviously, depending on weapon of choice.
...then there's Haste/RWotF as usual, but they're spells.

I can't figure out anything but the basics at the moment, but someone else around here might be more help.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Pixie Kenshiro: need help.
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 07:35:14 PM »
I thought my comment on Hiding as part of a full attack action took care of the flat-footed business?
Or do you want more options?

Also, Chaos Monk for Flailing Strike as you've already mentioned.
TWF/Snap Kick, obviously, depending on weapon of choice.
...then there's Haste/RWotF as usual, but they're spells.

I can't figure out anything but the basics at the moment, but someone else around here might be more help.

Can you even hide as part of the full attack? Only if you're pouncing, I imagine, as hiding requires you to move.
What's RWotF?

Snap Kick is good, especially when you mix in Confound the Big Folk.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!