Author Topic: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror  (Read 5627 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« on: November 18, 2010, 02:08:20 AM »
According to Lords of Madness, page 72, undead can't be killed by removing their brains. This makes D&D completely unsuitable for zombie horror.

Discuss.
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 02:11:28 AM »
Removal of the head would still be a significant impairment, methinks.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 02:23:49 AM »
Removal of the head would still be a significant impairment, methinks.

I dunno. I mean, sure, the onyx used to animates undead goes into the eyesockets, but beyond that, do we have any indication that D&D undead/zombies use the sensor organs of the living? Aside from the Lifesight feat, which would seem to indicate that they don't have some sort of "life sensing" abilities naturally (another point against them, since most zombie horror movies/games/etc seem to play this ability up and to explain otherwise inexplicable hordes of zombies chasing the living down).
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 02:25:11 AM »
Mechanically, I view head destruction as occurring due to taking enough damage to kill the creature, but that's just me.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 02:33:08 AM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 02:31:22 AM »
To quote the Vorpal enhancement:

Quote
Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads.

Which is odd, but there you go. Of course, that could easily only apply to the Vorpal decapitation.

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 03:07:56 AM »
I dunno. I mean, sure, the onyx used to animates undead goes into the eyesockets, but beyond that, do we have any indication that D&D undead/zombies use the sensor organs of the living? Aside from the Lifesight feat, which would seem to indicate that they don't have some sort of "life sensing" abilities naturally (another point against them, since most zombie horror movies/games/etc seem to play this ability up and to explain otherwise inexplicable hordes of zombies chasing the living down).
There's a few templates that can be added to zombies to make them closer to the ones you see in movies. The Hunting template gives them scent, Bloodthirsty gives them a bite attack, and Disease give the character Filth Fever. If they die, then the DM can have them raised again and turn them into a zombie if he/she wanted to. However, the two Kryuss templates could also be added where the victim slowly dies, and then eventually becomes an undead. This works to stop the idea of the DM having to reflavor the zombies, and turning into undead aspect.

As for making a quick kill, not much that can be done about that. You could always go with a third party d20 rule that a head shot is -8 to your roll, and an automatic critical, regardless of what you are. It's not that easy to shoot something in the head.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 03:51:34 AM »
Quick kill = undead having sucky hp.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

JohnnyMayHymn

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 503
  • Lord of the Kitchen Sink
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 05:00:07 AM »
horror zombies vary depending on what caused them to be zombies in the first place, rage virus, re-animator virus, magical means (voodoo? spells? curse?) etc...

to replicate these in 3.5 one would have to homebrew a virus, the desired symptoms and changes to the host creature upon infection.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 05:07:13 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
My (sometimes offensive) Web Comic Faux Blast
Can you find the Wumpus? (Hint: start with the spoiler....)
[spoiler] :beathorse [/spoiler]
...........  :joystick

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 05:16:44 AM »
Well, you'd need a ragezombie template, which would probably need not actually be undead. Seeing as I think the whole headshot business is a crit/precision damage anyway.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2010, 07:33:33 AM »
Um... horror zombies are in D&D and they're called ghouls. ???
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2010, 07:57:48 AM »
Um... horror zombies are in D&D and they're called ghouls. ???

They can't be stopped by removing the head (vorpal) or destroying the brain (such as an illithid's extract ability). They're not horror zombies without that.
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2010, 08:04:49 AM »
I'm pretty sure I saw plenty of headless zombies before The Zombie Survival Guide formalised things. :p
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2010, 08:11:54 AM »
I'm pretty sure I saw plenty of headless zombies before The Zombie Survival Guide formalised things. :p

Shh. Don't confuse things.

Modern zombie > yesterday's zombie. Keep with the times!
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

AndyJames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
  • Meep?
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 08:14:29 AM »
I'm pretty sure I saw plenty of headless zombies before The Zombie Survival Guide formalised things. :p
Headlesses predates the guide...

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Headless

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 08:20:53 AM »
I'm pretty sure I saw plenty of headless zombies before The Zombie Survival Guide formalised things. :p
Headlesses predates the guide...

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Headless

I love it when crazy shit comes right out and says "A Wizard Did It".
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 10:05:36 AM »
Sorry man, but if you aren't counting "night of the living dead" as zombie horror, I think your classification scheme is too narrow.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

RelentlessImp

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 10:17:30 AM »
Sorry man, but if you aren't counting "night of the living dead" as zombie horror, I think your classification scheme is too narrow.

I'm 24. I'll admit to a certain youthful ignorance of a lot, but is it my fault that media in the last, oh, 20 years or so has been focused entirely on "destroy the brain, kill the zombie" zombies?
Solo on Essentials
I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2010, 11:23:45 AM »
Um... horror zombies are in D&D and they're called ghouls. ???
Yeah, MM zombies aren't a good fit, but ghouls are better.  The one time I tried this, I made up a new template that made humans much closer to ghouls and kept their Con score.  The template was spread by disease.

Still, this only works at low levels.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2010, 02:22:15 PM »
I'm pretty sure I saw plenty of headless zombies before The Zombie Survival Guide formalised things. :p

Shh. Don't confuse things.

Modern zombie > yesterday's zombie. Keep with the times!
Then may I bring up AMC's The Walking Dead which brings back the headless zombies. Again, you have to go for the brain. Cutting off the head doesn't do anything.

I didn't think of the ghouls before, but they make sense. Although, adding those templates from Libris Mortis for zombies still does a fair bit to get them closer. Just doesn't bring them back.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Flay Crimsonwind

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1310
  • Watching the World Burn in Magnificence
    • Email
Re: So D&D Can't Be Used For Zombie Horror
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2010, 02:29:06 PM »
I'm sure they're still frightening, but at least they can't bite you that way... always an upside, right? Now they can bludgeon you to death, but unless they force you to ingest some of them, you should be okay, right?