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Author Topic: Is this optimizing?  (Read 3908 times)

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GawainBS

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Is this optimizing?
« on: July 07, 2008, 03:24:57 PM »
Maybe it belongs to the Nagging-board, but since the discussion is about optimizing a character, maybe this is a better plays. (For those who read the "Educating the masses"-thread, yes, it might be better for my sanity if I stayed away from Gamebanshee, but someone has to show people there what D&D is about.;))

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/dungeons-and-dragons-24/looking-for-suggestions-for-a-ba-character-100241-p2.html

It boils down to: Drow UltimateMagus10/Abjurer3/Sorcerer3/AbjurantChampion2 is better than Wizard 20 because he can do 150 damage over 2 rounds.  ???

Oh, and notice how he reads Swift Abjuration. I wish he were right...
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katans

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 04:01:58 PM »
Just let them have their fights with their supbar characters and wonder why they got all nerfed by a "simple" Mordenkainen's Disjunction.
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GawainBS

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 04:42:25 PM »
I'm mostly annoyed by the false info, not the fact that people ask for advice or don't know the ins-and-outs of Treantmonk's Guide to Being Batman.
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Blade2718

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2008, 01:18:10 AM »
Quote from: GawainBS on July 07, 2008, 04:42:25 PM
I'm mostly annoyed by the false info, not the fact that people ask for advice or don't know the ins-and-outs of Treantmonk's Guide to Being Batman.
Point of order:  It's LogicNinja's Guide to Being Batman.
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Cyrocloud

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 02:46:45 AM »
isn't that like less than fighter 20 full attacking in two rounds.

uhhh lets see assumeing 24 str and hasted with a greatsword +5 and only the first three attacks landing, ohh 63ish dmg two rounds in a row that is like 126.  thats not two far off considering this is one of the weakest builds in core.  granted it doesn't have the area though.  Even sword and broad would only make what a 18 point difference in this figure.

Sorrcer 20 with RotD could pick up wings of furry and be be doing better dmg with what a 4th level spell and it would be force dmg.

It gets a bit tricky considering hes a mod but yeah you should probably show him the light any way through either the being batman or god guides (it's kinda odd that both batman and god are on the same level here... :plotting.
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GawainBS

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 08:13:48 AM »
My apologies to LogicNinja.
That guy in the thread I linked it quite adamant. Half of the time he goes for "opinion-dodge" and the other half my agruments are declared to be "inapplicable". (The fact that a Wiz20 has lvl 9 slots and 24 caster level is apparently irrelevant.)
Another thing I don't get: if you fish out that "extreme" cheese combo with the metamagic, why not replace Fireball with Enervation?
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katans

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 08:20:09 AM »
Gotta quote Sting on this one: "It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"...
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 01:07:29 PM »
Quote
Gotta quote Sting on this one: "It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"...

I feel emasculated.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 02:51:52 PM »
Quote from: katans on July 10, 2008, 08:20:09 AM
Gotta quote Sting on this one: "It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"...

It takes one bad comment to get that man a nut-shot.

Quote from: GawainBS on July 10, 2008, 08:13:48 AM
My apologies to LogicNinja.
That guy in the thread I linked it quite adamant. Half of the time he goes for "opinion-dodge" and the other half my agruments are declared to be "inapplicable". (The fact that a Wiz20 has lvl 9 slots and 24 caster level is apparently irrelevant.)
Another thing I don't get: if you fish out that "extreme" cheese combo with the metamagic, why not replace Fireball with Enervation?


About the Drow Wizard: Kobolds are better than Drow. Always. About the spells he's using: Fireball sucks. Chain Missile is at least force damage (even if the average damage from the two is the same). Scorching Ray works better, and Enervate makes people cry.

Quote from: Cyrocloud on July 10, 2008, 02:46:45 AM
It gets a bit tricky considering hes a mod but yeah you should probably show him the light any way through either the being batman or god guides (it's kinda odd that both batman and god are on the same level here... :plotting.

We've been through this before, Batman is a God in his own right.
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Runestar

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2008, 01:57:52 AM »
Wow, those must be fairly low standards if 150 damage at higher lvs is enough for you.... :P
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GawainBS

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2008, 08:39:03 AM »
That's the reason why I'm puzzled. What's the point of 150 damage over 2 round if you won't even get your second round?
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RobbyPants

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2008, 10:55:42 AM »
Quote from: GawainBS on July 11, 2008, 08:39:03 AM
That's the reason why I'm puzzled. What's the point of 150 damage over 2 round if you won't even get your second round?
They probably haven't figured out that a wizard could be doing better things than direct damage.

Hell, even a single spell can do about that good.  Just take Maw of Chaos for CLd6 damage over an area for CL rounds with no save.  By the time you metamagic the hell out of your Fireball, it still only has a save DC of 13 + Int mod. 

It seems like they're going through a lot of trouble for a net loss.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2008, 11:16:44 AM »
Quote from: RobbyPants on July 11, 2008, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: GawainBS on July 11, 2008, 08:39:03 AM
That's the reason why I'm puzzled. What's the point of 150 damage over 2 round if you won't even get your second round?
They probably haven't figured out that a wizard could be doing better things than direct damage.

Hell, even a single spell can do about that good.  Just take Maw of Chaos for CLd6 damage over an area for CL rounds with no save.  By the time you metamagic the hell out of your Fireball, it still only has a save DC of 13 + Int mod. 

It seems like they're going through a lot of trouble for a net loss.

Fireball is only optimized when its in a Wand. And a Rod of Many Wands with a shitload of metamagic and Searing, Fiery, and Blistering spell as some of them.
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GawainBS

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2008, 03:22:12 PM »
Believe me, I tried to explain it. I don't know if they don't understand the fact that winning initiative, having a Simulacrum and a Clone, and then some bonus rounds from Timestop is rather good, or that they are pulling my leg. Most of the times it's something like "But the true roleplayer is smart and makes up for it with tactics..." Riiiight. :eh
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2008, 03:24:59 PM »
So a wizard winning initiative, having a Simulacrum and a Clone, and then some bonus rounds from Timestop isn't using tactics?
Riiiiiight :eh

Also, if you go the blasting route, at least make sure you can deal some 5k damage or something at that level without much effort.
Sheesh, amateurs... :eh

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DetectiveJabsco

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2008, 04:20:34 PM »
I got yelled at by him...sad
He told me i would not make it far with my attitude.
Comparing his build to a Commoner 20 is to harsh for him.
Bummer.
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GawainBS

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2008, 04:22:31 PM »
I thought I recognized that name.
That's pretty much his style. The problem for him is, however, that he can't rebuke your arguments with reason.
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Vidar

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2008, 10:36:19 AM »
Heh. Apparently Syberis decided that Jabco's first respons was so foul he better deleted it anyway. Some people just aren't ready enough to avoid corruption from the power that mod'ing brings.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2008, 05:16:14 PM »
Quote from: GawainBS on July 07, 2008, 03:24:57 PM
It boils down to: Drow UltimateMagus10/Abjurer3/Sorcerer3/AbjurantChampion2 is better than Wizard 20 because he can do 150 damage over 2 rounds.  ???
A half-orc sorcerer 8 / fighter 5 / eldritch knight 5 using disintegrate can deal more than 150 damage over two rounds. >.>

I should post it  :lol

Quote from: GawainBS on July 07, 2008, 03:24:57 PM
Oh, and notice how he reads Swift Abjuration. I wish he were right...
Me to.

Edit - I'm to lazy to sign up there, make them sign up here.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 05:22:42 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Runestar

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Re: Is this optimizing?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2008, 11:49:41 PM »
The sudden exposure here to what you can truly be capable of in 3e may be too much for them to handle at one go. Should we try to ease their transition somewhat? Even my foray into the old CO boards was slow and controlled, rather than me hurling headlong into it... :P
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