Author Topic: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes  (Read 39625 times)

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dither

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2010, 06:17:13 PM »
Never kill a character when their player is absent.

That is all.
I did that once.  It didn't go over well.

Turned out he was just late that night, and he'd had a really bad day.

He turned around and went right back home.
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RobbyPants

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2010, 10:58:41 AM »
Never kill a character when their player is absent.

That is all.
I did that once.  It didn't go over well.

Turned out he was just late that night, and he'd had a really bad day.

He turned around and went right back home.
That would suck.

In my case, we ended the previous session right before a boss fight.  The PCs were out in the middle of nowhere and the boss appeared, and we ran out of time.  We agreed to handle it next session.

So, next week, three of us showed up, and three didn't.  Normally, I'd just find something for the other two to do, but we were kind of stuck with the whole boss fight, so I just let them run the other two characters.  One Phantasmal Killer later, the party was down a druid.  That was a fun phone call to make:

"So, yeah.  While you weren't here, we played your druid and she died.  I need you to roll up a new character."
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dither

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2010, 12:53:42 PM »
In my case, we ended the previous session right before a boss fight.  The PCs were out in the middle of nowhere and the boss appeared, and we ran out of time.  We agreed to handle it next session.

So, next week, three of us showed up, and three didn't.  Normally, I'd just find something for the other two to do, but we were kind of stuck with the whole boss fight, so I just let them run the other two characters.  One Phantasmal Killer later, the party was down a druid.  That was a fun phone call to make:

"So, yeah.  While you weren't here, we played your druid and she died.  I need you to roll up a new character."

The party had angered an assassin and then let him get away rather than properly finishing him off in battle. Since it was the whole party he was angry with, I rolled randomly to determine who he would come after first -- it didn't help that most of the party was staying in different inns and homes throughout a large city. We gave the guy a couple rolls to determine whether the assassin would be detected, and after three rounds, the guy delivered a Death Attack (to a rogue, mind you) and set the inn on fire for good measure.

The rogue's player arrived as the other two characters staying in the inn were escaping the flames.
"Stuck between a rogue and a bard place."

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Read my webcomic!
Dither's Amazing Changing Avatars

[spoiler]
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"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
Well blow me down! :P
A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
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veekie

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2010, 01:31:00 PM »
In general it would be a good idea to have predetermined contingent plans for missing players. If theres someone the original player trusts, you could hand combat control over to him WITH prearranged agreement.

While fully DM controlled, I'd generally bestow limited immortality(no permalose) and work the missing player out of sight for a while. It's not hard to improvise a likely reason.
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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2010, 02:42:07 PM »
Same here, I do not let my player's characters die when they miss a session.

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2010, 02:09:33 AM »
We call it "the Dwarven Mumps."  The character becomes horribly ill, and can only follow at a distance.  The Gods of course protect these brave souls as they try to keep pace.  We've never had a big problem suspending disbelief -- the game serves the players, not the other way around.  Books and dice are perfectly happy to sit on a shelf.  You need to accommodate the fleshbags who chisel out time from their other commitments to play this game however you can, and I agree that characters can't die when their players are absent.

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2010, 02:54:15 PM »
nice, we never bothered naming it. we just call them 'sir not appearing in this adventure'
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betrayor

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2010, 03:01:28 PM »
The last time I didn't show up for the game my character was lost in the timestream and I had to complete a quest to return......

veekie

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #88 on: December 23, 2010, 11:06:40 PM »
Look at it this way, make a character disappear and while hes under remote control you plotdump to the character(who can't derail this plot dump what with not currently steering).

So between sessions you can prepare up some reading for the missing guy. :)
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

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Tenebrus

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #89 on: December 24, 2010, 08:09:12 PM »
And, y'know, we also have cell phones, so the player can be cued in for anything ridiculously dangerous.

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #90 on: December 27, 2010, 04:15:57 PM »
Good reading in this thread, I like it.

Some big ones from my experience:

  • The GM flying off the handle when someone lets the group know he can't make it with less than 8 days' notice. One player got seriously ill, slept through the day and the game, then got chewed out so much in emails he didn't bother coming back.
  • The GM treating bad guys like they matter, or willingly twisting fate ("I'll just add a few more hp so I can make the dragon last another round") in order to try the neat tricks he was looking forward to using on the party - especially if the bad guy faced a SoD and didn't get to do anything deadly or exciting. "Suddenly you notice he's immune to poison that deals Con damage and can slip past a gap at the edge of the wall of stone you cast!"
  • The GM acting like what he says is right because he's the GM. I can totally handle someone being the final arbiter... if that person understands that the other people in the room are probably going to notice when he makes a mistake and will most likely bring it up - and this is normal and good.
  • Everything is Dramatic All the Time - Every event that transpires in the world is a crucial, critical, danger-infused, time-sensitive emergency that will result in doom if not made a priority. So much for making a potion or scribing a scroll, you don't have time to spare this year.
  • One day: "Okay sure, you call a gilbrazu and defend the town single-handedly." Another day: "Wait what? Two-weapon fighting with spiked armor and a glaive? That's totally broken, I won't allow it." File this under "How can you say they suck? Monks are wizard-killers!"
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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2010, 10:56:21 PM »
I had a DM kill my wife and I's characters while we weren't there, we were having our anniversary and missed the session, turns out (in his homebrew modern setting) that a guy with a nuke detonator wired to his heart rate run through a fire and died destroying the entire city we were in, the rest of the party was else where and were fine. When asked about why this guy threw himself into the flames he said that he had no choice.... Wat?!?!

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2010, 02:14:25 AM »
willingly twisting fate ("I'll just add a few more hp so I can make the dragon last another round") in order to try the neat tricks he was looking forward to using on the party

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think flubbing the numbers on a monster to keep it around for an extra round or two is that big of a deal. 
As long as the DM is simply trying to make something challenging or interesting and not doing it out of spite, I think it's ok.  Sometimes the DM just underestimates the power of the party or overestimates the power of a threat.  I'd rather the DM buff him on the fly than have the party just roll over something with little resistance; especially if making it a challange involves nothing more than adding a extra hp. 

There is a line however (which you mentioned); if it fails on a 'save or die' or gets 20-20-instant killed...you can't deny that shit.

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2010, 02:40:35 AM »
willingly twisting fate ("I'll just add a few more hp so I can make the dragon last another round") in order to try the neat tricks he was looking forward to using on the party
As a DM I do this all the time (along with not statting out villains on their first introduction).  If they do something really cool or really dramatic I also let it succeed if the HP margin is narrow.  It's far more awesome for everyone involved if the players' long-shot cool strategy works.


I still have players bring up how fun previous campaigns were, so I had to have done something right.
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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2010, 05:37:23 AM »
willingly twisting fate ("I'll just add a few more hp so I can make the dragon last another round") in order to try the neat tricks he was looking forward to using on the party
As a DM I do this all the time (along with not statting out villains on their first introduction).  If they do something really cool or really dramatic I also let it succeed if the HP margin is narrow.  It's far more awesome for everyone involved if the players' long-shot cool strategy works.
I have to agree with this one, nobody's perfect, and if you miscalculated(for example, dropping in enemies with immunities and resists that unexpectedly screw the party over too much), adjusting these values to maximize Fun is useful.

The trick is not to get caught.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

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Senevri

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2010, 06:00:17 AM »
willingly twisting fate ("I'll just add a few more hp so I can make the dragon last another round") in order to try the neat tricks he was looking forward to using on the party
As a DM I do this all the time (along with not statting out villains on their first introduction).  If they do something really cool or really dramatic I also let it succeed if the HP margin is narrow.  It's far more awesome for everyone involved if the players' long-shot cool strategy works.
I have to agree with this one, nobody's perfect, and if you miscalculated(for example, dropping in enemies with immunities and resists that unexpectedly screw the party over too much), adjusting these values to maximize Fun is useful.

The trick is not to get caught.
Indeed. I don't really see much wrong with this. It's good to keep in mind that sometimes the better option is recycling the creature...

I think it ties down with my issues with optimization - IF a better optimizing DM could have had ALL those abilities AND a bit more hit points, isn't that better?

I also never do a hard pre-set of the spells my NPC wizards use, as, as a rule, they are smarter than me, so their spell picks are better. However, any spells they USE _must_ be in their spellbooks.

Consistency and internal logic are the key.

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2010, 04:03:02 PM »
As far as not stating enemies goes... I do it a lot, generally only for mooks. I will most often just decide they have an attack bonus of +5 60 hp and an AC of 12 etc...

It helps if you need random filler enemies to blow through, especially if you only want weak ones to emphasise the PCs abilities.

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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2011, 06:33:31 PM »
If my players kill an enemy early, that is something to be encouraged, not something to be punished with a fuck you, their stats are higher.

You do 61 damage to something with 60 HP, it goes down. That simple. Even if it didn't get to use its cool, and invariably lethal trick. Especially then. Worst case scenario, it's my own fault for not making the enemy have at least 1 HP left on its turn.
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Re: DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes
« Reply #98 on: January 01, 2011, 07:02:41 PM »
There's nothing worse than pulling off that awesome near Max damage critical that should kill a Guy, and you know it because of how the DM described the Guy prior to your hit, and have it fiat'ed away.
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