DM Pragmatics: The Big Mistakes

[veekie]

Yeah, directly fudging the dice usually doesn't end well. Its far too easy to be caught, compared to campaign details they shouldn't know anyway.

[RobbyPants]

I try to prep the enemies in a rational way.  But if the players think of something I didn't, more power to them.  Surprises make the game fun and, while the PCs are often surprised by the encounter, it's great when the DM can be surprised too.

Yeah.  I like when the players think of things I didn't.  If the fight was too easy, I can always learn from how they handled it.  This way, they get the satisfaction of using good tactics, and I get still get a second chance to run a tougher encounter.

[Tenebrus]

I try to prep the enemies in a rational way.  But if the players think of something I didn't, more power to them.  Surprises make the game fun and, while the PCs are often surprised by the encounter, it's great when the DM can be surprised too.

Yeah.  I like when the players think of things I didn't.  If the fight was too easy, I can always learn from how they handled it.  This way, they get the satisfaction of using good tactics, and I get still get a second chance to run a tougher encounter.

And if it is too easy to be satisfying, then drop some more enemies in.  As advice for starting gms, it is always easier to add to an encounter than to subtract.  If you're not sure the party can handle 4 Hill Giants, start with 3 and have another 1 (OR 2 OR 3, depending on how the fight is going) arrive a few rounds later.

[Senevri]

+1.
Last year, I ran a couple of solo session from first level. even rats are a bit much...
I found that commoners, aristocrats and war 1s work nicely, especially if they start weapons undrawn. I had an aristocrat and a small dog as a 1st-level 'boss' encounter, and it worked fine.

[InnaBinder]

And if it is too easy to be satisfying, then drop some more enemies in.  As advice for starting gms, it is always easier to add to an encounter than to subtract.  If you're not sure the party can handle 4 Hill Giants, start with 3 and have another 1 (OR 2 OR 3, depending on how the fight is going) arrive a few rounds later.

[VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]Do this more than twice to the same gaming group and be prepared to hear "We beat them too easily so he's throwing more crap at us" from your players. [/VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]

[Hallack]

I think one of the biggest mistakes that can be made is loosing the players' trust.  If players trust the DM he can do all kinds of stuff even outside the rules for flavor, challenge, and fun.  

[Senevri]

True; The best DM I've played with, hardly knew the rules. Of course, everyone else involved was a roleplaying hobbyist with extensive experience, so he left the rules to us, for the most part, and he started out by telling us he was going to customize the monsters and cosmology somewhat. How, we found out through gameplay, appropriate skill checks and so forth.

[RobbyPants]

And if it is too easy to be satisfying, then drop some more enemies in.  As advice for starting gms, it is always easier to add to an encounter than to subtract.  If you're not sure the party can handle 4 Hill Giants, start with 3 and have another 1 (OR 2 OR 3, depending on how the fight is going) arrive a few rounds later.

[VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]Do this more than twice to the same gaming group and be prepared to hear "We beat them too easily so he's throwing more crap at us" from your players. [/VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]

I did that 15 years ago in a solo game where the guy one-shotted a red dragon on a crit on the first round.  I simply added another dragon and the fight went on as normal.  I still get crap for that one 15 years later.

...And I find this all funny now, because I've picked up a lot of experience (and spend a lot of time learning from others on the boards), so now that it's his turn to be Mister Cavern, I'm having fun seeing all of his mistakes.  He still defers to me for all of the rules, because I've been MC for so long.

[veekie]

And if it is too easy to be satisfying, then drop some more enemies in.  As advice for starting gms, it is always easier to add to an encounter than to subtract.  If you're not sure the party can handle 4 Hill Giants, start with 3 and have another 1 (OR 2 OR 3, depending on how the fight is going) arrive a few rounds later.

[VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]Do this more than twice to the same gaming group and be prepared to hear "We beat them too easily so he's throwing more crap at us" from your players. [/VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]

Fun trick I like to pull.
Create a staggered encounter, where additional foes join in 2-3 rounds later(and can be sensed). You can divert these extras if things go south, and as a bonus, it causes paranoia for when the other boot drops. In the normal course of things they'd enter the fray at almost the same time the first lot is dealt with, leaving no recovery time and for lower level parties, a noticable depletion in their buffs.

[McPoyo]

And if it is too easy to be satisfying, then drop some more enemies in.  As advice for starting gms, it is always easier to add to an encounter than to subtract.  If you're not sure the party can handle 4 Hill Giants, start with 3 and have another 1 (OR 2 OR 3, depending on how the fight is going) arrive a few rounds later.

[VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]Do this more than twice to the same gaming group and be prepared to hear "We beat them too easily so he's throwing more crap at us" from your players. [/VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]

Fun trick I like to pull.
Create a staggered encounter, where additional foes join in 2-3 rounds later(and can be sensed). You can divert these extras if things go south, and as a bonus, it causes paranoia for when the other boot drops. In the normal course of things they'd enter the fray at almost the same time the first lot is dealt with, leaving no recovery time and for lower level parties, a noticable depletion in their buffs.

This is a pretty standard thing I do now. Usually using a d4 to determine what round they enter at the end of.

[InnaBinder]

And if it is too easy to be satisfying, then drop some more enemies in.  As advice for starting gms, it is always easier to add to an encounter than to subtract.  If you're not sure the party can handle 4 Hill Giants, start with 3 and have another 1 (OR 2 OR 3, depending on how the fight is going) arrive a few rounds later.

[VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]Do this more than twice to the same gaming group and be prepared to hear "We beat them too easily so he's throwing more crap at us" from your players. [/VOICE OF EXPERIENCE]

Fun trick I like to pull.
Create a staggered encounter, where additional foes join in 2-3 rounds later(and can be sensed). You can divert these extras if things go south, and as a bonus, it causes paranoia for when the other boot drops. In the normal course of things they'd enter the fray at almost the same time the first lot is dealt with, leaving no recovery time and for lower level parties, a noticable depletion in their buffs.

This is a pretty standard thing I do now. Usually using a d4 to determine what round they enter at the end of.

Glad that works for you guys.  With my old group, I'd be doing the Walk of a Thousand 4-Siders before they'd seen it a half-dozen times.

[RobbyPants]

Do you give them clues that the guys are on their way a couple rounds in advance?  That seems to be the key difference from Veekie's approach to simply just opening a new can of bad guys and adding it to Team Monster near the end of the fight.  If they hear them coming two rounds early, they both have a chance to react (which gives them a feeling of control), and it seems less like you're just sprinkling in more monsters to make the fight harder.

[McPoyo]

It's always either something where it makes sense (inside a multi-room complex, for instance), or where they can hear them coming or sense them in some way.

[veekie]

Basically, yeah, throwing ominous signs and noises, grinning all the time.
Normally it goes like this.

Party senses(or fails to sense) the monsters getting into position on the near side.
Party engages or is engaged by the near group, while the second group gets into a flank and attacks just a little too late(without telepathy or great practice, this is inevitable in a real scenario anyway).
Alternatively, the second group decides to lie in ambush, and the party takes a defensive position(having noticed them), recovering and healing up or going around.

Its a sensible tactic anyway, in a setting with AoE attacks, not to all attack from the same direction.

[InnaBinder]

Do you give them clues that the guys are on their way a couple rounds in advance?  That seems to be the key difference from Veekie's approach to simply just opening a new can of bad guys and adding it to Team Monster near the end of the fight.  If they hear them coming two rounds early, they both have a chance to react (which gives them a feeling of control), and it seems less like you're just sprinkling in more monsters to make the fight harder.

Indeed I did.  If those clues were not present in or before Round 1 of the combat, much wailing and gnashing of teeth could be expected over "[Binder] just thinks this encounter's too easy so he's piling on more guys".

[McPoyo]

Do you give them clues that the guys are on their way a couple rounds in advance?  That seems to be the key difference from Veekie's approach to simply just opening a new can of bad guys and adding it to Team Monster near the end of the fight.  If they hear them coming two rounds early, they both have a chance to react (which gives them a feeling of control), and it seems less like you're just sprinkling in more monsters to make the fight harder.

Indeed I did.  If those clues were not present in or before Round 1 of the combat, much wailing and gnashing of teeth could be expected over "[Binder] just thinks this encounter's too easy so he's piling on more guys".

Should point out all the modules with "In xdx+x rounds, y from area 2 will respond to the continuing sounds of combat" in them, then tell them to stfu and make you a sammich.

[Tenebrus]

If the players are attacking anything with a semblance of organization, they should expect the defense to be dynamic.  All sorts will be drawn to the noise and other indications of conflict. Most of my adventures involve castles and lairs, so I don't think the players dislike this approach to encounters or have "lost trust."  But I do appreciate how the tactic could spoil things.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I got the players to call the reinforcements themselves once.

BSF tried to smash a puny illusory dragonfly that was buzzing around an enormous bell with his warhammer.

How could I turn down that opportunity?

[veekie]

Is there anything that can be done when the RNG just completely hates on a player though?
I got monsters with a 1/4 chance of hitting connect 5 times in a row. And his 4/5 chance of hitting whiffs.

Then the monster fails a DC 13 fort save....with a +13 save bonus.

[Tenebrus]

There's (at least) 2 schools of thought.

The first says that we roll dice for a reason, and randomness is part of the game.  If you want complete control, write a book.  Often sessions of outright mockery of the players by the dice can become the stuff of fun gaming memories.

The second says "cheat fairly."  If the same guy has whiffed repeatedly, I will sometimes just look at his latest fail and say "I said, roll your attack (wink wink)."  On the other hand, that lets me feel better when they totally hose my BBEG on pure luck and I can fudge his save. 

This also gets back to other comments about changing encounters in midstream.  Your players have a certain tolerance for fudging, and you need to know where that point is.