Brilliant Gameologists Forum
Playtime! => Play by Post General => : sirpercival October 02, 2011, 07:24:16 PM
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dna1 expressed some interest... I have some ideas for a premise and storyline, but I want to play a conjurer or diviner, not run. :)
So, who's gonna run it??
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I'd be in to play if we start at mid-high level (9+).
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I will probly run the game :D Im just trying to get a significant plot going before I was going to post a thread about it. :smirk
It would be between 4-6 players. 32 pt buy, standard wealth. Starting ECL 6. Any caster class is fine, but it is a wizard game so be prepared to level up in a full casting progression non-divine class/prc
Thats what I was thinking so far... Didnt want to start the level to high because it can get pretty crazy with all the optimization in the higher levels. So I figure if we star alittle lower it would make it easier on my self
:D
Thoughts? Im open to reworking the house rules etc..
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What optimization level did you have in mind? I would be interested in joining with a Necromancer but haven't really played enough arcane casters to trust myself in a high op campaign.
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I always prefer to run a Medium optimization level. That way I dont have to keep to many notes on players, and I can focus more time on the actual game play. How ever if I had a Co-DM I might be willing to start at higher level, or allow crazy optimization.
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I always prefer to run a Medium optimization level. That way I dont have to keep to many notes on players, and I can focus more time on the actual game play. How ever if I had a Co-DM I might be willing to start at higher level, or allow crazy optimization.
Well, I'm not a crazy optimizer so I guess you want have to worry about that.
Even if it's an ECL 6 game I'll be in, probably playing a future version of my PC in sirpercival's campaign even though I've been dying to play an artificer.
Oh well, to be more precise I've been dying to play like... 20 different kinds of PCs. :lmao
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Care to make things more interesting? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13225):p
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Like I said, I'm in with a conjurer. I like optimization, but I'm not super duper good at it.
dna1, did you like my ideas? I have more if you'd like them. :)
EDIT: Is a Lesser Cansin kosher? If not, I can go with a Fire Grey Elf.
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very interesting, i will probly pm you back tonight or tmrw with some feedback for more brainstorming
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Care to make things more interesting? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13225):p
I might just have to take you up on that, Prime. :D If not playing a manipulative bastard illusionist, I might have to make Red Mage. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_of_8-Bit_Theater#Red_Mage) Hell, maybe I'll combine the two.
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I played in one of these a while back (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=100.0), and it was great fun. I just don't think I have time for another game... So many fun-looking games starting up all of a sudden lately... :lmao
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Wow, I've totally got a character..... now I just need to find a way to build him....
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I always prefer to run a Medium optimization level. That way I dont have to keep to many notes on players, and I can focus more time on the actual game play. How ever if I had a Co-DM I might be willing to start at higher level, or allow crazy optimization.
This sounds good, I'll probably do some slight modifications to a Dread Necro I had to retire a short while back and submit him if there are no objections. He'll probably be up in a few hours
Edit: Would you be okay with me being a Necropolitan or should I just go Tomb Tainted Soul?
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Seeing as I always wanted to play an Artificer, is it cool if I play crafting oriented abjurer?
It wouldn't be an optimal crafter but it wouldn't be bad either. I guess, I never played one.
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very interesting, i will probly pm you back tonight or tmrw with some feedback for more brainstorming
I'm willing to Co-DM as long as I get to play. :)
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Seeing as I always wanted to play an Artificer, is it cool if I play crafting oriented abjurer?
It wouldn't be an optimal crafter but it wouldn't be bad either. I guess, I never played one.
Technically, it's spellcrafting isn't optimal. It will be an excellent crafter, pretty much out of the box.
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I may be interested if there is still room. I really want to play an "effective blaster". I was considering the whole Master Spellthief & Red Wizard circle magic ideal to jack up the CL on everything, though without the nodes as I don't have those books and it was confusing trying to figure that out. Yes I know being a blaster gimps me compared to the other casters but if I throw enough broken stuff at it I think I can keep up, and provide the party a source of damage to end the fight after they have taken absolute control of it.
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Seeing as I always wanted to play an Artificer, is it cool if I play crafting oriented abjurer?
It wouldn't be an optimal crafter but it wouldn't be bad either. I guess, I never played one.
Technically, it's spellcrafting isn't optimal. It will be an excellent crafter, pretty much out of the box.
It's pretty expensive as far as feats go, but that aside it could be pretty useful. It obviously couldn't be compared to an Artificer.
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I may be interested if there is still room. I really want to play an "effective blaster". I was considering the whole Master Spellthief & Red Wizard circle magic ideal to jack up the CL on everything, though without the nodes as I don't have those books and it was confusing trying to figure that out. Yes I know being a blaster gimps me compared to the other casters but if I throw enough broken stuff at it I think I can keep up, and provide the party a source of damage to end the fight after they have taken absolute control of it.
An Ultimate Magus build might work well as a blaster. Specialize in Sonic & Force effects, tack on fun stuff like Explosive Spell on large AoEs, and use one side's slots to power metamagic on the other. Something like Sorc 1/Wiz 4/UM 10/Incantatrix 5 for some extra metamagic awesome. Use Practiced Spellcaster to fix your progressions.
You might also be able to do something really crazy with a sorc with Arcane Preparation and Knight of the Weave into UM... use the lower-level slots in KotW to power metamagic. Because of how the KotW CL works, it will always be higher than sorcerer, so you could do Sorc 6/KotW1/UM10/Full-casting PrC 3 (UM will progress KotW casting 7 times, granting you 6th-level spells). You only lose 1 sorc level, so you still get 9th-level spells. You get Cha-spellcasting on both, so you can free persist stuff if you want, or at least free quicken or twin.
EDIT: You can also get into KotW with wizard if you take the Spontaneous Divination ACF or the Alacritous Cogitation feat, which gets you into stuff 1 level earlier. This also allows you to actually use the "Expanded Spell Knowledge" class feature...
EDIT: How about Evoker 3/Master Specialist 2/KotW 1/UM 10/MS +4? You'll have a CL for evocation wizard spells of 24, for KotW spells of 36, and you can add Miracle to your spellbook at 19th level.
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I always prefer to run a Medium optimization level. That way I dont have to keep to many notes on players, and I can focus more time on the actual game play. How ever if I had a Co-DM I might be willing to start at higher level, or allow crazy optimization.
This sounds good, I'll probably do some slight modifications to a Dread Necro I had to retire a short while back and submit him if there are no objections. He'll probably be up in a few hours
Edit: Would you be okay with me being a Necropolitan or should I just go Tomb Tainted Soul?
Either works fine for me, though if you did go necropolitan I would expect you to start at the -1 level from the template. So its up to you.
very interesting, i will probly pm you back tonight or tmrw with some feedback for more brainstorming
I'm willing to Co-DM as long as I get to play. :)
Sounds good, I will pm you here shortly with some ideas.
I may be interested if there is still room. I really want to play an "effective blaster". I was considering the whole Master Spellthief & Red Wizard circle magic ideal to jack up the CL on everything, though without the nodes as I don't have those books and it was confusing trying to figure that out. Yes I know being a blaster gimps me compared to the other casters but if I throw enough broken stuff at it I think I can keep up, and provide the party a source of damage to end the fight after they have taken absolute control of it.
No players have been chosen yet besides the Co-DM who will also be playing. The good thing about starting ECL 6 is around those levels a Blaster could be one of the more usefull members of the party :D
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Well I'm trying to figure out exactly what and how to get it done. I like the idea of crazy decently high CL, but that takes some time to get to. I don't have the FR books so Incantrix and KotW are out. What is your view on Reserves of Strength removing the cap on spells? How about the War Mage PrC from Dragonlance as well?
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I edited the post with another version, adding in Master Specialist so you can get Miracle at 19th level. And, honestly these builds don't actually take too long to mature, because you're only one level behind in wizard casting compared to a straight wizard (equivalent to my Malconvoker), and as soon as you hit 9th level you'll be tossing around free metamagic like a boss.
I would seriously suggest trying to find champions of valor somewhere, because KotW makes it sooooo much cooler. But just using sorcerer is fine too, you'll have to monkey with Practiced Spellcaster to make it really work.
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Well I'm trying to figure out exactly what and how to get it done. I like the idea of crazy decently high CL, but that takes some time to get to. I don't have the FR books so Incantrix and KotW are out. What is your view on Reserves of Strength removing the cap on spells? How about the War Mage PrC from Dragonlance as well?
Im not familiar with the feat. Since I have a Co-DM I will go ahead and let him make the call on that.. :devil Im liking this already :smirk
Warmage is fine, I really dont care what campaign setting or material you use as long as you keep to a medium optimization level. I would say no frank/tome material because I havent looked at any of it. However you can always run something by me or Percival and see if either of us approve it..
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I have a friend with a fair number of FR books so I'll check if he has it.
Trying to see if I can find an early qualifier to get into UM before game play starts, but I don't see anything yet.
Well I'm trying to figure out exactly what and how to get it done. I like the idea of crazy decently high CL, but that takes some time to get to. I don't have the FR books so Incantrix and KotW are out. What is your view on Reserves of Strength removing the cap on spells? How about the War Mage PrC from Dragonlance as well?
Im not familiar with the feat. Since I have a Co-DM I will go ahead and let him make the call on that.. :devil Im liking this already :smirk
Warmage is fine, I really dont care what campaign setting or material you use as long as you keep to a medium optimization level. I would say no frank/tome material because I havent looked at any of it. However you can always run something by me or Percival and see if either of us approve it..
Well the War Mage PrC is in one of the DL books and it has some decent capabilities to help boost damage and defense. It is not the same as Warmage the class from CAr. Up to +3 damage per die rolled can get hefty, but it is still just damage.
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Well you could be ECL6 with Wiz4/Sorc1/UM1, but KotW makes things neater IMO. If you're going the sorc route, though, you could do this:
Evoker3/MS1/Sorc1/UM10/War Mage 3/MS +1/WM+1, that way you could get in 4 levels of war mage and still hit up Miracle at 19th level. You lose 2 wizard levels of casting using sorc, though, because one of your UM levels has to progress sorc.
Adding War Mage to the KotW build (and still getting Miracle, again you don't have to do this but if you're an evoker why wouldn't you want to?) gives us Wiz 4/MS 1/KotW 1/UM 10/War Mage 1/MS +1/WM +2. You only get 3 levels of War Mage, but you get Miracle two levels earlier and you only lose one wizard level. Plus you are mixing campaign-specific sources for major awesomeness (throw in some Escalation Mage FTW).
I'm kewl with Reserves of Strength, but it's a pretty High-Op feat. To take War Mage, though, you have to burn two feats and buy a third so it's not super optimized in itself. I think it should be fine, especially since you'll need all the help you can get to make your blasting as effective as the rest of the party at mid-to-high levels.
Speaking of Escalation Mage, it's my new favorite PrC to mix with Minor Shapeshift. Yay for free metamagics that hurt your temporary hp!
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The problem with wizards and mid optimization is that it's hard to do for a wizard.
I would like to jump in, but the build I have in mind is a master spellthief build. Abusing Bard+Wizard+Sublime Chord+Ultimate Magus to get insane caster level on his spells. Would the be okay? The optimization on that is rather obscene. I was planning to flavor it with some incantatrix, which will off course go even more out of hand.
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SirPercival I replied to your PM.
The problem with wizards and mid optimization is that it's hard to do for a wizard.
I would like to jump in, but the build I have in mind is a master spellthief build. Abusing Bard+Wizard+Sublime Chord+Ultimate Magus to get insane caster level on his spells. Would the be okay? The optimization on that is rather obscene. I was planning to flavor it with some incantatrix, which will off course go even more out of hand.
Ya high levels that would be pretty optimized out, but at where we are starting it shouldnt be to bad. If you wanted to do some crazy optimizing on the class side you could always go less on the racial/template etc parts.
Im not really looking for game breaking builds here though. Honestly I wouldnt mind it, but I dont have the free time to sufficiently build encounters etc at that level of game play. With the medium optimization we can all have fun and keep it simple :p
Or it could give you a chance to play something you wanted to try that had alot of flavor, but never actually did because it wasent optimal.
:D
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Well what I'm trying to figure out is a way to incorporate Master Spellthief with the KotW to get a really high CL then use Reserves to actually get damage out of it. I was going to try and use Sorcerer but it requires gaining 2 effective levels to get in Spellthief, KotW, and the 1st level of UM before the game starts. Requires having flaws to get all the feats though, so I don't know if that will fly.
Here is the build thought assuming I wait until level 7 for UM:
Sorc 1/Spellthief 1/Sorc +3/KotW 1
Feats: Versatile Spellcaster (1st; used to qualify for having spells 1 level higher)
Arcane Preperation(Human; to qualify for UM)
Iron Will (flaw)
Metamagic feat (flaw)
Master Spellthief (3rd; stacks ST & all arcane classes for CL & cast spells in light armor)
Reserves of Strength (6th; Uncap my spells to take advantage of the CL)
edit: worst case I delay Reserves to 12th level and get iron will at 9th if I can't use the flaws. and grab a metamagic at 6th.
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I thought I could take Extraordinary Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Arms and Magic Armors ( Craft Construct prerequisite ) and Craft Construct.
This way I'd use all my available feat slots but I could craft a couple of cool things.
What do you think? Any advice?
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I always prefer to run a Medium optimization level. That way I dont have to keep to many notes on players, and I can focus more time on the actual game play. How ever if I had a Co-DM I might be willing to start at higher level, or allow crazy optimization.
This sounds good, I'll probably do some slight modifications to a Dread Necro I had to retire a short while back and submit him if there are no objections. He'll probably be up in a few hours
Edit: Would you be okay with me being a Necropolitan or should I just go Tomb Tainted Soul?
Either works fine for me, though if you did go necropolitan I would expect you to start at the -1 level from the template. So its up to you.
Do you want me to assume I got it at level 6 and thus returned to level 5 or may I take it at level 3? The difference would be that I'm 3000 XP behind the others instead of 6000.
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Well what I'm trying to figure out is a way to incorporate Master Spellthief with the KotW to get a really high CL then use Reserves to actually get damage out of it. I was going to try and use Sorcerer but it requires gaining 2 effective levels to get in Spellthief, KotW, and the 1st level of UM before the game starts. Requires having flaws to get all the feats though, so I don't know if that will fly.
Here is the build thought assuming I wait until level 7 for UM:
Sorc 1/Spellthief 1/Sorc +3/KotW 1
Feats: Versatile Spellcaster (1st; used to qualify for having spells 1 level higher)
Arcane Preperation(Human; to qualify for UM)
Iron Will (flaw)
Metamagic feat (flaw)
Master Spellthief (3rd; stacks ST & all arcane classes for CL & cast spells in light armor)
Reserves of Strength (6th; Uncap my spells to take advantage of the CL)
edit: worst case I delay Reserves to 12th level and get iron will at 9th if I can't use the flaws. and grab a metamagic at 6th.
Looks pretty solid. Flaws will be allowed
I always prefer to run a Medium optimization level. That way I dont have to keep to many notes on players, and I can focus more time on the actual game play. How ever if I had a Co-DM I might be willing to start at higher level, or allow crazy optimization.
This sounds good, I'll probably do some slight modifications to a Dread Necro I had to retire a short while back and submit him if there are no objections. He'll probably be up in a few hours
Edit: Would you be okay with me being a Necropolitan or should I just go Tomb Tainted Soul?
Either works fine for me, though if you did go necropolitan I would expect you to start at the -1 level from the template. So its up to you.
Do you want me to assume I got it at level 6 and thus returned to level 5 or may I take it at level 3? The difference would be that I'm 3000 XP behind the others instead of 6000.
As long as you take the -1 level you can add it where ever you like.
I thought I could take Extraordinary Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Arms and Magic Armors ( Craft Construct prerequisite ) and Craft Construct.
This way I'd use all my available feat slots but I could craft a couple of cool things.
What do you think? Any advice?
Looks good, pregame crafting will be fine as long as everything is paid for. No free crafting schenanigans, idk if its possible at a low ecl like this. But I let a friend have pregame crafting once with his high level artificer and it was crazy lol
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Would metamagic applied using UM's augmented casting still require a full round for spontaneous casters? I don't know how much Metamagic I'll be using but I at least want to know if I should use the ACF to make it viable or go with a different one to help me survive a bit better. Both would trade away the familiar as my experience shows them to be a liability unless you do a form of the big guy is with me.
Working on my typical build spreadsheet now. I'll link to a google doc copy of it once I've got some more figured out.
edit: Let me make sure I have this correct.
KotW will always have a CL of my Sorc. CL+1 but its spells per day & spells known will depend on UM's +1 CL to spontanious. Does that sound right considering its strange wording?
Master ST just stacks Sorc CL & KotW CL +1 for my level of ST correct?
So at level 6 with the build layout I have my Sorcer CL is 4, My KotW CL is 5 (KotW levels + Any other Arcane CLs [friend did have book and sent me the info I needed]) Then with Master Spell thief it stacks my ST level with all other CLs for all arcane spells thus they all cast at CL10. Correct?
I just haven't used KotW before and the only time I used Master ST was in a simple form, so i want to make sure I didn't screw anything up.
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I thought I could take Extraordinary Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Craft Wondrous Items and Craft Arms and Magic Armors ( Craft Construct prerequisite ) and Craft Construct.
This way I'd use all my available feat slots but I could craft a couple of cool things.
What do you think? Any advice?
Looks good, pregame crafting will be fine as long as everything is paid for. No free crafting schenanigans, idk if its possible at a low ecl like this. But I let a friend have pregame crafting once with his high level artificer and it was crazy lol
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If I make some pregame crafting then I guess I'd be starting at 5th level cause of XP expenditure. ( expenditure?! :lmao )
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Well my first thought is a beguiler or illusionist specialist, themed around ravens (so with divination and necromancy as seconds). That is, however, a role that could become a huge pain in the ass for you, the DM. If you think illusions would be fine, and are ready for the incredible variety of uses they serve, I would be happy to fill that niche in the party. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to craft something else, probably a crazy dwarf transmuter.
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Would metamagic applied using UM's augmented casting still require a full round for spontaneous casters? I don't know how much Metamagic I'll be using but I at least want to know if I should use the ACF to make it viable or go with a different one to help me survive a bit better. Both would trade away the familiar as my experience shows them to be a liability unless you do a form of the big guy is with me.
Working on my typical build spreadsheet now. I'll link to a google doc copy of it once I've got some more figured out.
edit: Let me make sure I have this correct.
KotW will always have a CL of my Sorc. CL+1 but its spells per day & spells known will depend on UM's +1 CL to spontanious. Does that sound right considering its strange wording?
Master ST just stacks Sorc CL & KotW CL +1 for my level of ST correct?
So at level 6 with the build layout I have my Sorcer CL is 4, My KotW CL is 5 (KotW levels + Any other Arcane CLs [friend did have book and sent me the info I needed]) Then with Master Spell thief it stacks my ST level with all other CLs for all arcane spells thus they all cast at CL10. Correct?
I just haven't used KotW before and the only time I used Master ST was in a simple form, so i want to make sure I didn't screw anything up.
Crap, I completely forgot about early entry. :banghead Try this on for size:
Illumian Evo1/Spellthief1/MasterSpec2/KotW1/UM10/MS +3/Archmage 2
You take Improved Sigil: Krau at level 1 to qualify early for MS, and you can throw on Enhanced Power Sigils as well if you want. You take Master Spellthief as well, of course. Note that you can get Iron Will from Otyugh Hole for 3k, to qualify for Reserves (and/or Incantatrix if you want to rock that). You can do a lot with Archmage, so you could take that for all 5 levels after UM if you don't care about Miracle.
Caster Levels: Spellthief 6 (7 with EnhPowSig), Evoker 31 (32 with EnhPowSig), Knight of the Weave 49 (51 with EnhPowSig).
Cons: Less Cha synergy than with Sorc, highest CL is off of crappy class list (KotW).
Pros: Only 2 lost wizard levels, very high caster levels, unlike the Sorc version you can actually make use of Enhanced Spell Knowledge and so can put Orb of Force or some other awesome blaster spell at level 6 or lower onto the KotW list and go nuts with Reserves of Strength, get Miracle as a wizard spell if you go with 3 levels of MS, get Skill Focus: Spellcraft for free to go into Archmage, and get spell power or mastery of shaping/elements or whatever from Archmage.
Thoughts? Check my math?
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I believe the math is off. Master spellthief has all classes use the same CL that it calculates as the total of all arcane CL (other than ST) and ST levels. Here is my formula I was using to calculate it:
2(S+ASP)+KotW+ASP+ST
S is Sorcerer CL, ASP is Arcane spell power bonus (it adds to all arcane caster levels), KotW is actual levels of KotW (that is why S is multiplied because KotW is total Sorcerer caster level +1), and St is actual levels of Spell thief (they don't get an actual caster level until 4th class level)
I'm not sure how Illuman will factor into this yet I'll have to crack open that book and see.
edit: Realized why I was going Sorc and not something else. To get into KotW you need either BaB 5 or Spontanious casting of 3rd level spells. So I'd also need another feat to qualify in that.
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I believe the math is off. Master spellthief has all classes use the same CL that it calculates as the total of all arcane CL (other than ST) and ST levels. Here is my formula I was using to calculate it:
2(S+ASP)+KotW+ASP+ST
S is Sorcerer CL, ASP is Arcane spell power bonus (it adds to all arcane caster levels), KotW is actual levels of KotW (that is why S is multiplied because KotW is total Sorcerer caster level +1), and St is actual levels of Spell thief (they don't get an actual caster level until 4th class level)
I'm not sure how Illuman will factor into this yet I'll have to crack open that book and see.
You're right my math is off, but KotW also increases in CL due to UM, it's not just "Sorc +1". You're gaining spellcasting levels from UM in both classes, albeit unequally. So let me redo this.
Master Spellthief adds 1 to each CL, Krau Sigil adds +2 CL to every casting class, up to a limit of your character level (so apply this first, and you don't need Enhanced Power Sigils). Thus, we have:
Evoker = 18 levels + 2 from EPS + 1 from Master Spellthief + 4 from Arcane Spell Power = 25, and more if you took Spell Power from Archmage.
Knight of the Weave = 25 from Evoker + 8 levels + 1 from Master Spellthief + 4 from Arcane Spell Power = 38 (again, more if Spell Power from Archmage).
Thus, with (say) an Orb of Force ported over to KotW with Expanded Spell Knowledge and using Reserves of Strength, you would do 41d8 damage. Not bad... especially if you burned a 4th-level Evoker slot to Twin it for free. 2 4th-level slots for 82d8 damage, and you could spend 2 more to do Quicken another one. Since you have a ring of Wizardry IV (because you're ECL 20), you have a lot of 4th-level spell slots to burn... :D
If you took 5 levels of Archmage and took Spell Power for each one (I don't suggest you do this, but you could), you would have and Evoker CL of 30 and a KotW CL of 48.
If you took a greater bloodline, it gets even more fun because you get an extra +3 CL on Evoker and +6 CL on KotW... but you'd be 17th level at an experience level of 20. Unless you could take all 3 bloodline levels at 2nd level, and be 19th level (20th - 3000xp).
So... yeah.
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From Master Spellthief, emphasis mine:
Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack
when determining your caster level for all arcane spells .
They should all have the same CL from my understanding. Though much of it comes from the Red Wizard guide in which they actually made "rocks fall you die". Otherwise if they don't all stack together there isn't much point in taking any Spellthief as it doesn't net very much CL.
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From Master Spellthief, emphasis mine:
Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack
when determining your caster level for all arcane spells .
How is that different from what I did? You have one level of spellthief, so you get +1 CL on your Evoker spells. KotW gets +1 CL from Master Spellthief as well, and takes all of the Evoker CL however it was generated.
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I made an edit to clarify my point. But I do understand where you are coming from on that. I guess it was just something to the Red wizard class that wouldn't really apply here. I'll just drop the spellthief in that case, as the 2 CL isn't worth delaying spells a level and feat. Now to figure this out as an Illumian wizard.
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I decided that I want to redo my DN slightly and got somewhat interested in Fiend Blooded. The problem would be the 8 ranks of Know (Planes). Would any of you guys be able to offer some advice on this?
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Without Spellthief, you are left with (assuming you want to go with my Evoker build and not Sorc):
Illumian Evoker 2/MS 1/KotW 1/UM 10/X 3/MS +1/X 2, where X is Archmage or War Mage. You get Miracle at 18th level, and your CLs are:
Evoker 19 + 1 (sigil) + 4 (asp) = 24
KotW 8 + 24 (evoker) + 4 (asp) = 36
And of course you get +1 Evoker CL and +2 KotW CL for each Archmage Spell Power you take, or whatever.
EDIT: Crap, that doesn't work, you need 8 ranks in Spellcraft to qualify for UM. Well, you get the idea.
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I decided that I want to redo my DN slightly and got somewhat interested in Fiend Blooded. The problem would be the 8 ranks of Know (Planes). Would any of you guys be able to offer some advice on this?
The Educated feat gives you all Knowledges as class skills.
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Or it could give you a chance to play something you wanted to try that had alot of flavor, but never actually did because it wasent optimal.
:D
I totally understand you here dude, and actually this got me thinking, I kindda want to play a sorcerer specialising in Magic Missile. I was thinking I'd do something like Kobold Sorcerer with Loredrake and War Mage levels.
However I can't remember if anyone already did this. Or if kobold loredrake will be over the top.
If not, here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=334310)a sheet WiP.
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I'm going back to the drawing board and looking for new ideas again. I'm just not satisfied with what I'm coming up with and I don't want to go Circle magic as that will just be way too much work trying to keep it from being destroyed. Right now Mixster is wanting to go all magic missile on stuff so I'll let him work on the blasting portion for now while I contemplate what I might want to play, as i'm not certain about trying to be a general blaster without a stupid high CL.
Oh and Mixster if it would be allowed you may want to look into Force Weaver, it is in Path of Magic a 3.0 Legends and Lairs supplement, it adds a bunch of force themed abilities and bonus damage to any force spell.
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Well, what do we have right now? A Summoner (me), and Abjurer/Crafter (the good drhorrible), a Dread Necromancer (monotremeancer), and either an beguiler or a transmuter (flay crimsonwind). There's still a Diviner to be had, and then in terms of PrCs to tap there's Incantatrix (we need at least one), Anima Mage, War Weaver, Dweomerkeeper, and other random fun things like Sentinel of Bharrai, Dracolexi, or Escalation Mage. If you could houserule at least one more CL into Master Transmogrifist, that one could be a lot of fun as well for a transmuter.
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Well, if you put it that way, I'm more than willing to fill the role of diviner. A simple rogue/wizard/unseen ser/divine oracle build will do the trick.
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I thought Flay was going Illusionist, or something along those lines at least. I'm currently contemplating a Transmuter War Weaver but am not set on it yet. I was considering a Dweomerkeeper earlier, but thought we wanted to keep it to specialists wizards/themed lists. So that is another option.
I'm not sure what else anyone has stated they wanted to give a try. I'll look closer at Dweomerkeeper since I never got to actually play one, the one I built never hit the PrC before the game blew up. Plus it will give us some healing.
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Well, if you put it that way, I'm more than willing to fill the role of diviner. A simple rogue/wizard/unseen ser/divine oracle build will do the trick.
My favorite unseen seer is to use swordsage and assassin's stance for the sneak attack and other shadow hand fun. Earth dreamer and Dream dwarf also combine well with that stuff.
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I thought Flay was going Illusionist, or something along those lines at least. I'm currently contemplating a Transmuter War Weaver but am not set on it yet. I was considering a Dweomerkeeper earlier, but thought we wanted to keep it to specialists wizards/themed lists. So that is another option.
I'm not sure what else anyone has stated they wanted to give a try. I'll look closer at Dweomerkeeper since I never got to actually play one, the one I built never hit the PrC before the game blew up. Plus it will give us some healing.
Transmuter War Weaver Incantatrix FTW. Persist buffs through the tapestry!
And if you really want healing, Arcane Disciple (Healing) would do it...
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That force weaver looks pretty cool.
All in all I think I'll be a blaster sorcerer kobold who uses some cheese to stay in there and relevant. I think if I add that ritual to get +1 sorc level casting I can fit in Sorc 3/Force Weaver 2/War Mage 1. To get +2 to my damage dies, and cast 4 Missiles at a time for 4d4+12 damage with that spell. Which means atm, I'll be using Scorching Rays instead.
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I thought Flay was going Illusionist, or something along those lines at least.
If the DM is okay with the inherent crazy shenanigans illusions present, then I'm going that. If not, maybe a god, but I'd rather have a fun theme, so I'd have to think on it.
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hey dna1, how do you want to handle (a) spellbooks, and (b) summoning lists?
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Are you guys full of players?
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I'm not thinking of any interesting metamagic combos that would fit here as a dweomerkeeper. I'm wanting to do more than dmm persist a ton of stuff. The other thought right now is sapphire heirophant and going all judge dread. I just have too many meh ideas and nothing that is both powerful enough and interesting.
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Well, you could go gish with JPM & Abjurant Champion... or you could go Cerebremancer or Mind Mage... or you could play a domain wizard with the Incarnum Domain into Soulcaster and once you get to 8th level spells you could cast Incarnum Apotheosis so your Midnight Metamagic feat is always full...
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OR, you could play a "I'm going to fuck with everyone else" guy. There's a bunch of ways to do this -- counterspelling, Incantatrix for metamagic effect and Sculpt Spell to make their stuff useless, lots of debuffs and enchantments, antimagic fields... that sort of thing.
EDIT: If anyone's interested, here's my Malconvoker (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=334030) (no equipment or spellbook yet). If anyone has more info on the Cansin than just stat adjustments, I'd appreciate it. I think it's from Dragon 297.
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I asked Dna1 and I hadn't realized it was a Co-dm'ed event.
What I wanted you all to consider and to find out if the SirPercival and Dna1 would allow my Revised Sorcerer, I took a lot of time working on it and at first I was just hoping someone would be interested in trying it out. Though if there are slots I would be willing to play it myself, I'm just trying to get some press for the thing and see how well its plays. Would you mind terribly indulging me?
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Do you have info on it?
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Do you have info on it?
Damn. I meant to go Revised Sorcerer (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11948.0)...
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edit: I changed my mind. Wizards are way too damned complicated to play... It's more work than fun. :P
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My favorite unseen seer is to use swordsage and assassin's stance for the sneak attack and other shadow hand fun. Earth dreamer and Dream dwarf also combine well with that stuff.
Haven't thought of that. I must admit I know very little of ToB and prefer to keep it simple. Unless you think I'll be extremely underpowered by taking a single rogue level.
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edit: I changed my mind. Wizards are way too damned complicated to play... It's more work than fun. :P
LOL ya thats why I said Medium optimization, and starting ECL 6. For the reason that this way we can keep it simple and fun. The high levels of wizardry just gets insane. I personally dont have the time it takes to run a God Wizard game. I cant say for sure but Im guessing this game will run from levels 6-12? Its hard to say at this point but I know I personally dont want to take it to the extreme levels.
So as I suggested earlier this would be a good time to play something really fun, that maybe you havent tried because it wasent optimized enough.
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If I make some pregame crafting then I guess I'd be starting at 5th level cause of XP expenditure. Right?( expenditure?! Laugh )
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Still trying to decide if I wanna go Illusionist 3 / Master Specialist 3, aiming for Shadowcraft Mage or Shadowcrafter (or both), taking arcane disciple to get the knowledge domain's spells so that I'm playing up that raven as a messenger/omnipresence as well as a trickster and illusionist or a beguiler who.... you know what, typing it out just made me realize how the extra skills and hd aren't really important.
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If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
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I'm liking the messing with people idea. Currently looking at a "party buffer" in that I'll use Incantrix to toss my Metamagic's onto your spells for you. I'm also looking at possibly counterspelling, as the ability to buff your spells is limited. The problem is I don't see how to get around having to ready multiple actions a round. Well that and getting my dispel powerful enough to be able to actually counter spells. Any thoughts from you guys? How about our Abjurer, since I'd most likely be stepping on his toes if anyone's.
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I'm liking the messing with people idea. Currently looking at a "party buffer" in that I'll use Incantrix to toss my Metamagic's onto your spells for you. I'm also looking at possibly counterspelling, as the ability to buff your spells is limited. The problem is I don't see how to get around having to ready multiple actions a round. Well that and getting my dispel powerful enough to be able to actually counter spells. Any thoughts from you guys? How about our Abjurer, since I'd most likely be stepping on his toes if anyone's.
http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-2396-reactive-counterspell.html will help a lot. I'm so glad that someone is playing an Incantatrix! I love Incantatrixes. :D
Also helpful: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871214/Dispelling_38;_Counterspelling_Compilation
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that looks good enough, even if only once a round. Here is a follow up though. For Domain wizard do you have to pick one of the domains listed or can you pick a cleric's domain to gain the power associated with it? Looking at Inquisition domain to get bonus to dispel checks, and possibly time for imp. init. now.
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I actually edited my post with the guide to dispelling, which suggests that Reactive Counterspell is NOT good, since you lose your action. Check out that guide. This will be a very mage-heavy game (obviously), so some of what they said about focusing on dispelling is not exactly applicable, but it's still very good advice.
As for domain wizard, even if you're allowed to pick a cleric domain you don't get the granted power. However, the Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment feat (if you can fit it into your character BG) can give you that hefty +4.
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looked at the guide. It looks like Incantrix is incompatible with most of the stuff in there though. A lot of it focuses on being an abjurer and taking lost of master specialist or I7V or just being a cleric. So I think I could still make a decent counterer, but not a great one.
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I'm liking the messing with people idea. Currently looking at a "party buffer" in that I'll use Incantrix to toss my Metamagic's onto your spells for you. I'm also looking at possibly counterspelling, as the ability to buff your spells is limited. The problem is I don't see how to get around having to ready multiple actions a round. Well that and getting my dispel powerful enough to be able to actually counter spells. Any thoughts from you guys? How about our Abjurer, since I'd most likely be stepping on his toes if anyone's.
No problem for me. I'm focusing on Abjuration, but I guess I'll be a more a fill-in-the-gaps type of Wiz. I'll be making items for the party and I'll try to get as many spells in my book as I can. As we advance I'll be taking the best Abjuration spells and I'll join in in the buffin'.
Just so you get the idea, my dream Wiz is one that has his own plane where he keeps his laboratory, a Wiz that will take Ice Castle, just because it's that cool.
You guys optimize, I'll be the one crafting and learning dumb spells in the background. :lmao
One question for the DMs: Do Extraordinary Artisan and Magical Artisan stack?
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Ok here is one for the DMs. Divine defiance FC2 pg 83 has the following pre-reqs: Divine Caster level 3rd, ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Would Illumian Krau sigil be enough to qualify for it with 1 level of cleric? The guide seems to say there is some controversy on it and to ask your DM of Practiced spellcaster works, which the Krau is a lesser form of PS anyway.
Currently eyeing something along the lines of Abjurer1/Cleric 1/master spec 3/Incantrix 1 to start off, assuming I can make all of my feats work out. That lets me get to level 7 Inc. if we stop play at about level 12 as was mentioned.
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looked at the guide. It looks like Incantrix is incompatible with most of the stuff in there though. A lot of it focuses on being an abjurer and taking lost of master specialist or I7V or just being a cleric. So I think I could still make a decent counterer, but not a great one.
Well, the master specialist is for the Minor Esoterica at 4th (which gives you a competence bonus on dispel checks equal to half your CL) and the abjuration CL boost at 6th. And I7V is the grandaddy of all abjuration PrCs. HOWEVER, since you want to do more than just maximize your dispelling, you should definitely go with Incantatrix because it's basically wizard++.
Depending on how else you want to approach things, you could go either:
~~Dispel-focused build~~
Abjurer (not focused) 3/MS 4/Incant 10/MS +2/Archmage 1 (or with early entry, Abj 2/MS 4/Incant 10/MS +2/Archmage 2)
With the planar touchstone feat for +4, and the early entry method for an extra spell power, your dispel check would be: 10 (arcane mastery) + 10 (levels) + 4 (inquisition) + 11 (minor esoterica) = 35, which should be enough for most spells and you would be able to boost that with some buff spells (that you could persist). At level 6 w/ early entry you would have 10 (arcane mastery) + 6 (levels) + 4 (inquisition) + 3 (minor esoterica) = 23, enough to counter or dispel 12th-level casters, which is double your own ECL. Even without the Planar Touchstone feat you could still auto-succeed with Dispel Magic on anything cast by CL 8 or lower.
~~Diviner-focused builds (to know what to do in any situation)~~
Illumian Binder 1/Diviner 1/Anima Mage 3/Incantatrix 10/AM +5
Dream Dwarf Diviner 3/MS 2/Incant 10/Earth Dreamer 5
~~I7V build~~
Abj 2/MS 3/Incant 8/I7V 7
I'm not the expert on debuffs... you could do a fear build, or an enchanter... but I really like the abjurer/incantatrix who dispels/counters, metamagic effect --> sculpt spell or seize concentration or snatch spell to basically take over everything they're trying to do. That sounds really irritating for enemy spellcasters. And, you can persist our own buffs with cooperative metamagic.
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Ok here is one for the DMs. Divine defiance FC2 pg 83 has the following pre-reqs: Divine Caster level 3rd, ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Would Illumian Krau sigil be enough to qualify for it with 1 level of cleric? The guide seems to say there is some controversy on it and to ask your DM of Practiced spellcaster works, which the Krau is a lesser form of PS anyway.
Currently eyeing something along the lines of Abjurer1/Cleric 1/master spec 3/Incantrix 1 to start off, assuming I can make all of my feats work out. That lets me get to level 7 Inc. if we stop play at about level 12 as was mentioned.
I'd be all for that working, you could end up with something like (out of order):
Illumian Abj 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/MS 4/Incant 10/Archmage 4 or Sacred Exorcist 4 (to get more turns and still advance abjurer spellcasting)
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the bonus from master specialist is only half of your class level not caster level, so not a huge bonus. I'm just trying to get to Inc. as fast as possible so I can terrorize our enemies by making spells cast by the rest of the team better if possible. The fact that master spec. also gives a free skill focus spellcraft is just icing. Other than that it is better than dead levels of wizard.
Here is the lay out:
Abjur 1/Cleric (or cloistered) 1 (Inq. & 1 other domain)/MS Abj. 3/Inc. 1
Feats: Imp. Sigil Krau (1), Iron Will (Oty. Hole), Spf Abj. (flaw), 1 metamagic (flaw), Divine Defiance (3), Magic Disruption (6).
The first 4 are for pre reqs. DD lets me pop off a turn in order to be able to counter without a readied action, MD is a +1 to abj and lets me try reduce the DC & CL of opposing spells all day if they fail a conc. check.
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the bonus from master specialist is only half of your class level not caster level, so not a huge bonus. I'm just trying to get to Inc. as fast as possible so I can terrorize our enemies by making spells cast by the rest of the team better if possible. The fact that master spec. also gives a free skill focus spellcraft is just icing. Other than that it is better than dead levels of wizard.
Here is the lay out:
Abjur 1/Cleric (or cloistered) 1 (Inq. & 1 other domain)/MS Abj. 3/Inc. 1
Feats: Imp. Sigil Krau (1), Iron Will (Oty. Hole), Spf Abj. (flaw), 1 metamagic (flaw), Divine Defiance (3), Magic Disruption (6).
The first 4 are for pre reqs. DD lets me pop off a turn in order to be able to counter without a readied action, MD is a +1 to abj and lets me try reduce the DC & CL of opposing spells all day if they fail a conc. check.
Rock on, looks awesome. Purification domain gives +1 CL on abjuration spells but I think Planning might be even better -- Extend Spell, and then you can take Persist if you want. However, to really make Persisting work you'll need an Item Familiar to rock out on spellcraft checks. And maybe our crafter can make you an item of Divine Insight... :D
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Would trading my regular familiar for an item familiar be ok? I know it would be a house rule and not RAW, but just tossing it out there, especially since I don't really like have a squishy familiar in the first place.
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Would trading my regular familiar for an item familiar be ok? I know it would be a house rule and not RAW, but just tossing it out there, especially since I don't really like have a squishy familiar in the first place.
You could trade it out for the "Eidetic Spellcaster" ACF from dragon 357, to not have a spellbook. No need for spell mastery, unless you want Uncanny Forethought.
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That will probably work then. I may just drop Magic Disruption for Item familiar too. I don't have the Dragon Mags so I have no idea what ACFs they had. But lack of a spellbook sounds good. How does that interact with copying scrolls into your spellbook?
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I don't actually have that one, I was going off of this (each of these requires giving up your familiar), from http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/251331-3-5-good-alternative-having-familiar.html :
[spoiler]Aligned Spellcaster - Choose a non-neutral portion of your alignment. Spells you cast have that alignment descriptor (unless they have the opposite alignment descriptor), and such spells that are targeted against creatures of the opposite alignment are at +1 caster level (+2 if it has the opposing alignment subtype).
Beleaguered Spellcaster - When you take damage equal to three times your spellcaster level from one attack (up to [1 + your spellcasting ability modifier] times per day), the next spell you cast is automatically empowered or maximized (your choice) without increasing the casting time or spell level.
Disciple of Boccob - You are treated as 1 level higher to qualify for magic item creation feats, and magic items you create are treated as being +1 caster level higher. If you destroy a permanent magic item, you lose all arcane spellcasting abilities for 1 day per caster level of the destroyed item.
Eidetic Spellcaster - You do not need a spellbook, either to prepare spells or record new ones. You gain/learn new spells normally otherwise, including paying the appropriate gold pieces (for special incenses) when acquiring new spells that aren't from gaining a level.
Impromptu Metamagic - Each day you choose a metamagic feat you have. A number of times per day equal to (5 - the spell level increase of the feat) you may spontaneously apply that feat to a spell as you cast it, with no increase in casting time or spell level. You must still have the ability to cast spells of the level the spell would have if the feat were applied to it normally.[...]
[/spoiler]
Impromptu metamagic might be best for you, actually. And Disciple of Boccob is perfect for our crafter!
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Just so you get the idea, my dream Wiz is one that has his own plane where he keeps his laboratory, a Wiz that will take Ice Castle, just because it's that cool.
You guys optimize, I'll be the one crafting and learning dumb spells in the background. :lmao
One question for the DMs: Do Extraordinary Artisan and Magical Artisan stack?
Are you gonna be a gnome and go for Maester? Or just a human or something for the bonus feat?
Definitely swap out your familiar for Disciple of Boccob, that will be awesome.
Oh, oh, oh. You should go Anima Mage and pick up Astaroth! That way you can craft whatever you want on a given day. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a
Illumian Binder 1/Abjurer 1/Anima Mage 4 gets you Astaroth at our starting ECL. You can take CWI because you'll probably always want that one. When you get up to Anima Mage 8 you can bind Zceryll (sp?) and summon aliens, too. :smirk (Note that you have to be Illumian to get into AM at level 3, because you can take Improved Sigil: Krau at level 1without having spellcasting ability. If you want to be a different race it's Abj 2/Binder 1 with Precocious Apprentice.)
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Well I'm kinda digging the whole Eidetic Spellcaster theme. Plus I'm wondering how much metamagic I would actually be using on my own spells. I think a lot of my time will be for readying to toss it on someone elses spell or to counter. I'll ponder on it for now since it is just thematic and there may be a chance at something really cool out of a randomly metaed spell.
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If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.
The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.
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If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.
The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.
It does, however, seem to be very focused around not multi-classing. So I guess regular sorcerer with loredrake is still better for me.
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This (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=334279) is what I've got so far. I plan on grabbing Ghostly Visage as my familiar later on. With the abilities it will gain from me becoming Fiend Blooded his Ego Score will increase as well.
Edit: Also, I assumed he reached Middle Age before becoming a Necropolitan as undead do not age
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Ok, I'll make a quick recap on my PC.
Human Abjurer 5
Feats:
1st: Scribe Scrolls(Bonus), Legendary Artisan(Human), Extraordinary Artisan (1st), Magical Artisan(Craft Wondrous Items)(Flaw)
3rd: Craft Wondrous Items
5th:
Precrafted Items(waiting for approval):
Luminous Robe: Luminous Armor(Sanctified 2, BoED), Use activated or continuous spell effect. Price: 3*2*2000 = 12000 (6000 to craft) gp & 480xp.
Due to Legendary Artisan, the base price is reduced by 25%: 12000*0.25 = 3000 gp
Due to Magical Artisan, the crafting price is reduced by 25%: 12000*0.25 = 3000 gp
The final price is then: 12000 - (3000 + 3000) = 6000 gp (3000 to craft)
Due to Extraordinary Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 480*0.25 = 120xp
Due to Magical Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 480*0.25 = 120xp
The final cost is then: 480 - (120 + 120) = 240xp
Luminous Robe: CL3, Luminous Armor, 3000gp and 240xp
Periapt of Evil Shielding: Protection from Evil(Sor/Wiz 1, PHB), Shield(Sor/Wiz 1, PHB) Use activated or continuous spell effect, multiple effects. Price 1*1*2000*2*2 = 8000 (4000 to craft) gp & 320xp.
Due to Legendary Artisan, the base price is reduced by 25%: 8000*0.25 = 2000 gp
Due to Magical Artisan, the crafting price is reduced by 25%: 8000*0.25 = 2000 gp
The final price is then: 8000 - (2000 + 2000) = 4000 gp (2000 to craft)
Due to Extraordinary Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 320*0.25 = 80xp
Due to Magical Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 320*0.25= 80xp
The final cost is then: 320 - (80 + 80) = 160xp
Periapt of Evil Shielding: CL1, Protection from Evil, Shield, 2000gp and 160xp
I may come up with a couple other items, but for now I wanted to see if you were ok with these.
P.s.: For the Luminous Robe we'd have to roll the Strenght loss cause of the sacrifice component.
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If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.
The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.
It does, however, seem to be very focused around not multi-classing. So I guess regular sorcerer with loredrake is still better for me.
Well for the record... if you take it you don't lose anything over the regular sorcerer, its essentially the same class as sorcerer with a few perks here and there.
Edit: Also... when I check back its only primordial manipulation that you lose. Further you keep that if you take 7 levels of straight sorcerer.
I'd think that Lineage Magic and Birthright Arcana would be better than taking dead levels of sorcerer? Does the singular note to stay sorcerer offend somehow? If you're only taking 2 levels whats it hurt?
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Ok, I'll make a quick recap on my PC.
Are you going to go with the Disciple of Boccob thing? :)
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Ok, I'll make a quick recap on my PC.
Are you going to go with the Disciple of Boccob thing? :)
I didn't see your post about it... I'll have to check all that stuff and read it carefully cause i'm not very familiar with the Binder.
Meanwhile, what can you tell me about the items I crafted so far? Are they ok?
P.s.: Disciple of Boccob is great, a no-brainer for me! Thanks!
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If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.
The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.
It does, however, seem to be very focused around not multi-classing. So I guess regular sorcerer with loredrake is still better for me.
Well for the record... if you take it you don't lose anything over the regular sorcerer, its essentially the same class as sorcerer with a few perks here and there.
Edit: Also... when I check back its only primordial manipulation that you lose. Further you keep that if you take 7 levels of straight sorcerer.
I'd think that Lineage Magic and Birthright Arcana would be better than taking dead levels of sorcerer? Does the singular note to stay sorcerer offend somehow? If you're only taking 2 levels whats it hurt?
It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.
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It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.
Awesome, awesome. . . Hopefully the extra spell like will help you with cast as much as the focused specialists.
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It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.
I assume you saw my discussion with archangel.arcanis about making a Ultimate Magus blaster with Knight of the Weave?
With loredrake it's even easier, though without some fast talking you lose the ability to port spells over to the high-CL KotW list since you don't have a spellbook... (you need Arcane Prep to make UM work) anyway, here's the build (assuming DWK & loredrake & greater rite [you only need one extra feat over DWK to get the greater rite):
DWK Loredrake Sorc 4/KotW 1/UM 10/Archmage 5 (or War Mage, but the CL boost from Archmage is nice...)
There's no reason you can't swap out Revised Sorc, and get 7 levels of it from DWK+loredrake+greater rite.
Sorc CL = 19 levels + 3 DWK + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 31
KotW CL = 8 levels + 31 sorc + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 48
With Reserves of Strength you can throw down a nice 51d8 orb of force (if you can port it to KotW). Or, you can just use Wings of Flurry, since you're a sorc. :)
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Building my sheet now. It really is amazing how quickly you can run up one skill with a few bonuses.
How does the cost of Oty. Hole come into play for the game? is it -3k from my wealth or would it be recovered as using consumable magic items would be?
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There are a few things I've been working on. First, I know my character's theme, but not much about his build. I decided to start building his background, and worked on his history with magic. He's not a sorcerer, but rather a focused wizard, so he probably went to an academy. Then I remembered these feats, and decided that he not only went to wizard school, but got a friggin higher education in magic. These are from dragon, and while all good, aren't really too powerful.
Greyhawk Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Greyhawk_Method)
Nexus Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Nexus_Method)
Silent Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Silent_Method)
Sagacious Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Sagacious_Method)
Arcane Shorthand (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Arcane_Shorthand)
I'm interested in taking probably two, both because they're awesome and to represent his extended time learning about magic (but not, ironically enough, learning spells). He's probably going to take Magic Sensitive from complete mage at some point; yes, I'm giving divination half a fuck.
This character is surprisingly harder to build than usual...
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Flay you swapped the links on Silent and Sagracious methods. Also if these are available I'd like to nab silent method simply for the extra +2 to dispel checks, assuming that it applies to all and not just illusions.
edit: oh and my sheet so far. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=334497)
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Silent is +2 to dispel overall, so you'd be good to go. I wish they'd designed more of these! I would take up the challenge, but I think the last thing fullcasters need is more toys.
As far as the methods go, I was mainly looking at Greyhawk and Nexus, thinking about maybe silent. Our crafter might like Sagacious, since scrolls are cheap. Depending on our down-time to scribe in our spell-books (gotta find a way to get rid of that...) then the shorthand feat could either be useless or somewhat useful, though I doubt it would in the long run matter.
EDIT: Wow, scratch Greyhawk, which is strictly inferior to complete arcane's collegiate wizard.
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Okay. Is the game full? I'd like to give it a go. :D
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It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.
I assume you saw my discussion with archangel.arcanis about making a Ultimate Magus blaster with Knight of the Weave?
With loredrake it's even easier, though without some fast talking you lose the ability to port spells over to the high-CL KotW list since you don't have a spellbook... (you need Arcane Prep to make UM work) anyway, here's the build (assuming DWK & loredrake & greater rite [you only need one extra feat over DWK to get the greater rite):
DWK Loredrake Sorc 4/KotW 1/UM 10/Archmage 5 (or War Mage, but the CL boost from Archmage is nice...)
There's no reason you can't swap out Revised Sorc, and get 7 levels of it from DWK+loredrake+greater rite.
Sorc CL = 19 levels + 3 DWK + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 31
KotW CL = 8 levels + 31 sorc + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 48
With Reserves of Strength you can throw down a nice 51d8 orb of force (if you can port it to KotW). Or, you can just use Wings of Flurry, since you're a sorc. :)
Nice suggestion, but I decided against going for the KotW/UM approach. I like it, but I didn't think it'd feel right for this campaign.
If both DMs will allow me caster level shenanigans, I will consider it.
If not, this is my proposed build:
DW Loredrake White Dragonspawn Kobold w/ both the draconic rites of passage.
Sorcerer 3/Force Weaver 2/War Mage 5/Force Weaver +8/Force Missile Mage 5.
The focus will be around using Arcane Fusion to pump out as many magic missile spells, where all the missiles deal (1d4+10)*1½ damage from empower, each magic missile spell will, when combined with Reserves of strength, dish out like 10 or so missiles. At the end of the day, this can lead to obscene amounts of missiles and thus an obscene amount of damage.
Do note that even though we are just level 6, I'd start with 5th level spells with this build, however, I wont be using the regular god set-up and will rather be using Arcane Fusion and Wings of Flurry to dish out obscene amount of damage, so I think it will be a fair and decent glass-cannon build.
EDIT: Looking this all over again I am wondering whether Master Spellthief + Knight of the Weave dips would be broken, I know they'll practically double my caster level. However, I am using those caster levels for Magic Missiles and stuff like that, also it would reduce me to 4th level spells at the get-go.
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From our discussion earlier Master ST isn't a doubler. You will get to add your effective caster level from ST to each of your other classes. So unless you have a way to jack that one up before adding it to your base class that qualified for KotW it won't have a huge impact.
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From our discussion earlier Master ST isn't a doubler. You will get to add your effective caster level from ST to each of your other classes. So unless you have a way to jack that one up before adding it to your base class that qualified for KotW it won't have a huge impact.
Bah, okay, then I'm keeping to the original plan of Force Weaver, Force Missile Mage and War Mage.
By the way, at the beginning I can do tanky business. Atm, I'm looking at an AC of 23, and I can still buff with Mage armor to 27. Next level I'll skip that mage armor for a Mithral Twilight Breastplate. So I can go to AC 29. However, as AC soon becomes meaningless I'll also pick up improved blink and greater mirror image sooner or later. Basically this build is about surviving while dishing out loads of magic missiles.
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And with some well placed debuffs, I'll make sure they'll have a hard time hitting a barn from the start :D
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Which they'll never see coming from behind my illusions.
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I'm mostly going to be debuff (read as dispelling, & countering), though I did pick up targeting ray to help the party out as well as baleful transposition to hopefully put them where they don't want to be, like their caster next to our summoned critter and their tank now in the back trying to get back in front. :lol
I have extend spell and persistant spell but can't toss them on your spells until next level. Though I already have a +26 spellcraft so I can actually make some of those DCs. Hey magic item man you got something to help my spellcraft its a bit low? ;)
PS I still need gear (money and an answer to the Oty. Hole question), languages, and prepared spells.
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I'm mostly going to be debuff (read as dispelling, & countering), though I did pick up targeting ray to help the party out as well as baleful transposition to hopefully put them where they don't want to be, like their caster next to our summoned critter and their tank now in the back trying to get back in front. :lol
I have extend spell and persistant spell but can't toss them on your spells until next level. Though I already have a +26 spellcraft so I can actually make some of those DCs. Hey magic item man you got something to help my spellcraft its a bit low? ;)
PS I still need gear (money and an answer to the Oty. Hole question), languages, and prepared spells.
So I could take shield and have it persisted? That would be what, DC 39 so possible with a few retries or aid another from my familiar and me?
By the way, is anyone else taking mage armour? I don't want to put a slot there if I can get it for a pearl of power.
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I'm mostly going to be debuff (read as dispelling, & countering), though I did pick up targeting ray to help the party out as well as baleful transposition to hopefully put them where they don't want to be, like their caster next to our summoned critter and their tank now in the back trying to get back in front. :lol
I have extend spell and persistant spell but can't toss them on your spells until next level. Though I already have a +26 spellcraft so I can actually make some of those DCs. Hey magic item man you got something to help my spellcraft its a bit low? ;)
PS I still need gear (money and an answer to the Oty. Hole question), languages, and prepared spells.
So I could take shield and have it persisted? That would be what, DC 39 so possible with a few retries or aid another from my familiar and me?
By the way, is anyone else taking mage armour? I don't want to put a slot there if I can get it for a pearl of power.
Yes you could, but it will be next level as I don't have that ability yet. I'll also have mage armor, but as a cleric domain spell so it won't last terribly long.
Question on that too guys. For the Incantrix abilities that allow you to apply metamagics with a spellcraft check, is the use expended if the check fails? neither says anything on a failed check.
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Lots of things! Bah this 2.5 hour commute.
Otyugh hole = 3k off your WBL.
I'm a conjurer so of course I'll have mage armor.
I actually have no idea how many players we have at this point, but we'll have a game thread very soon to collate everything.
Does anyone have any suggestions for feats for my Malconvoker? I've never played one before, and have gotten mixed reviews on Cloudy Conjuration. I'm planning to take Demon Mastery at 9... but I'm not sure what else. Here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=334030) is the sheet, for a reminder.
Any other questions? dna1 and I are still figuring out how to deal with spellbook entries.
EDIT: Re: incantatrix, I think the use is not expended if the check fails, because you didn't do it. But dna1 should confirm that.
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ok good to know.
For feats. Don't worry about extend as you get a class feature for it and I'll be able to toss it on for you. Any summon boosters you can get to apply would be good. Summon Elemental for a trap springer. And TM's Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289)
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ok good to know.
For feats. Don't worry about extend as you get a class feature for it and I'll be able to toss it on for you. Any summon boosters you can get to apply would be good. Summon Elemental for a trap springer. And TM's Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289)
I can't get Summon Elemental for 2 levels, I'm only a 5th-level caster :/ And imbued summoning is not worth it, so I'm mostly tapped out on feats to boost my summons.
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Any other questions? dna1 and I are still figuring out how to deal with spellbook entries.
There are a few things I've been working on. First, I know my character's theme, but not much about his build. I decided to start building his background, and worked on his history with magic. He's not a sorcerer, but rather a focused wizard, so he probably went to an academy. Then I remembered these feats, and decided that he not only went to wizard school, but got a friggin higher education in magic. These are from dragon, and while all good, aren't really too powerful.
Nexus Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Nexus_Method)
Silent Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Silent_Method)
Sagacious Method (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Sagacious_Method)
Arcane Shorthand (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Arcane_Shorthand)
I'm interested in taking probably two, both because they're awesome and to represent his extended time learning about magic (but not, ironically enough, learning spells). He's probably going to take Magic Sensitive from complete mage at some point; yes, I'm giving divination half a fuck.
This character is surprisingly harder to build than usual...
Only this, and faerie mysteries initiate (int to hp ritual, of course), and are we keeping or waiving racial prc requirements for things like shdowcraft mage? Cause I'll play a gnome if I have to.
On a similar note, I find plenty of +cha templates, and no magic-int boosting without hellish LA and a bunch of stuff I don't need. Anyone know of any good stuff for int casters, or is that intentional?
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Hey friends! The time is near, I just requested our thread to be made. Hopefully we can start by this weekend? :smirk
For now continue working on your builds, I will post the gameworld fluff when our thread goes up. SirPercival has been kind enough to accept handling the crunch for awhile, so if you have any build questions please direct them to him for now. I will be working on plot/fluff etc etc. I would like to use alot of pictures and maps if I can. So Im gathering up some good stuff for us :devil
Heres what I have currently for house rules. This is a rough draft so afew minor things may change. See below
[spoiler]
•Starting level:6th (i may give you guys 1 free LA to use for a single level in a martial class, or template etc. I will decide this soon.)
•Negative Racial Mods arent being used. Use just the positive ones.(this isnt for optimization really, its more to encurage fun/interesting builds.)
•Character wealth: Standard for 6th level
•Sources allowed: All official D&D 3.5 and unupdated 3.0, including web enhancements. Other sources allowed on case by case basis. All specifically allowed sources need to still be run through me or SirPercival for possible adjustments.
•Ability score generation: 32pt buy
•Cross-class skills are bought at the same rate as regular skills. The cap on ranks still remains.
•There are no multiclassing penalties, even though none of you would have used them anyway :devil
•Everyone receives Infernal, and any 1 monster language as a bonus language
•Nightsticks stack
•No evil characters
•Medium Optimization.
[/spoiler]
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•Negative Racial Mods arent being used. Use just the positive ones.(this isnt for optimization really, its more to encurage fun/interesting builds.)
Wow, holy shit and thank you! Does that count for templates? Cause if so, I'm thinking Magic-Blooded Unseelie, even though I really don't need the charisma boost or half the special abilities (I'm not gonna lie, the best parts of that are the skills and the winter chill; see below). I'm already a Gray Elf, and my pic is based on Sandman, so I could go with some darkness.
[spoiler]Magic-Blooded Unseelie
-2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Wis, +4 Cha (+0 LA)
Low-Light Vision
+4 racial Intimidate, +2 racial Spellcraft/Know (Arcana)
1/day Detect Magic, Nystul's Magic Aura, Nystul's Undetectable Aura, Read Magic
Winter Chill: Enemies within 5 ft suffer penalty to saves equal to character's charisma bonus.
HD scaling DR/cold iron, Iron Vulnerability (1 damage from touch, +1d6 damage from attacks, DR blocks)[/spoiler]
If we do go for the +1 LA free, I wont go that, but I'd wonder if the Boccob god-touched template works. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11463.0)
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My favorite unseen seer is to use swordsage and assassin's stance for the sneak attack and other shadow hand fun. Earth dreamer and Dream dwarf also combine well with that stuff.
I'm looking into this, but I don't see how you can get the necessary ranks in spot and search, as they're both not on the swordsage nor on the wizard list.
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I'm mostly going to be debuff (read as dispelling, & countering), though I did pick up targeting ray to help the party out as well as baleful transposition to hopefully put them where they don't want to be, like their caster next to our summoned critter and their tank now in the back trying to get back in front. :lol
I have extend spell and persistant spell but can't toss them on your spells until next level. Though I already have a +26 spellcraft so I can actually make some of those DCs. Hey magic item man you got something to help my spellcraft its a bit low? ;)
PS I still need gear (money and an answer to the Oty. Hole question), languages, and prepared spells.
I could craft you an item with Wieldskill.
Mhh... Something like that would cost me... 2000 to make, I think.
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If we can have LA buyoff or a free LA +1, can I play a Greensnake Naga?? :D
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If we can have LA buyoff or a free LA +1, can I play a Greensnake Naga?? :D
And if so, may I start at level 6?
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Is anyone using any ranged attacks as we start out? I'm working on my gear and prepared spells and am wondering if I should have targeting ray prepared or just lesser sound orb so I can deal damage if needed.
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Some of my summons may have ranged attacks... but you don't need to do TOO much for them, they should be fine on their own. :)
EDIT: Is Mythweavers working for anyone else?? Also, I'll be mostly AFK until Thurs afternoon/evening...
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I'm mostly going to be debuff (read as dispelling, & countering), though I did pick up targeting ray to help the party out as well as baleful transposition to hopefully put them where they don't want to be, like their caster next to our summoned critter and their tank now in the back trying to get back in front. :lol
I have extend spell and persistant spell but can't toss them on your spells until next level. Though I already have a +26 spellcraft so I can actually make some of those DCs. Hey magic item man you got something to help my spellcraft its a bit low? ;)
PS I still need gear (money and an answer to the Oty. Hole question), languages, and prepared spells.
I could craft you an item with Wieldskill.
Mhh... Something like that would cost me... 2000 to make, I think.
I'll take it!
edit: eye slots seems most appropriate. Maybe something like glasses of spellcraft ;)
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I'm mostly going to be debuff (read as dispelling, & countering), though I did pick up targeting ray to help the party out as well as baleful transposition to hopefully put them where they don't want to be, like their caster next to our summoned critter and their tank now in the back trying to get back in front. :lol
I have extend spell and persistant spell but can't toss them on your spells until next level. Though I already have a +26 spellcraft so I can actually make some of those DCs. Hey magic item man you got something to help my spellcraft its a bit low? ;)
PS I still need gear (money and an answer to the Oty. Hole question), languages, and prepared spells.
I could craft you an item with Wieldskill.
Mhh... Something like that would cost me... 2000 to make, I think.
I'll take it!
edit: eye slots seems most appropriate. Maybe something like glasses of spellcraft ;)
I'll get to work to see the how much I'm going to pay for it. It should be about 2000 gp, anyway.
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Some of my summons may have ranged attacks... but you don't need to do TOO much for them, they should be fine on their own. :)
EDIT: Is Mythweavers working for anyone else?? Also, I'll be mostly AFK until Thurs afternoon/evening...
Nope, I must admit that I created my Mythweavers account for this occasion so I haven't really used it. But I am under the impression that this kind of thing happens to them from time to time
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Some of my summons may have ranged attacks... but you don't need to do TOO much for them, they should be fine on their own. :)
EDIT: Is Mythweavers working for anyone else?? Also, I'll be mostly AFK until Thurs afternoon/evening...
Nope, I must admit that I created my Mythweavers account for this occasion so I haven't really used it. But I am under the impression that this kind of thing happens to them from time to time
It hasn't been down for me today. Until now at least.
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Some of my summons may have ranged attacks... but you don't need to do TOO much for them, they should be fine on their own. :)
EDIT: Is Mythweavers working for anyone else?? Also, I'll be mostly AFK until Thurs afternoon/evening...
Nope, I must admit that I created my Mythweavers account for this occasion so I haven't really used it. But I am under the impression that this kind of thing happens to them from time to time
Yes, it does. Which is why I prefer to just make html-based character sheets on the forum I'm actually doing the PbP on...
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Is anyone using any ranged attacks as we start out? I'm working on my gear and prepared spells and am wondering if I should have targeting ray prepared or just lesser sound orb so I can deal damage if needed.
I'll be using scorching rays if that helps you.
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Is anyone using any ranged attacks as we start out? I'm working on my gear and prepared spells and am wondering if I should have targeting ray prepared or just lesser sound orb so I can deal damage if needed.
I'll be using scorching rays if that helps you.
Ok so I'll go ahead and swap my sonic orbs for targeting ray. Then most all of my damage will come from a crossbow for now, but that is fine since my goal is to aid us and shut down enemy casters.
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Is anyone using any ranged attacks as we start out? I'm working on my gear and prepared spells and am wondering if I should have targeting ray prepared or just lesser sound orb so I can deal damage if needed.
I'll be using scorching rays if that helps you.
Ok so I'll go ahead and swap my sonic orbs for targeting ray. Then most all of my damage will come from a crossbow for now, but that is fine since my goal is to aid us and shut down enemy casters.
I think that atm, I can deal plenty of damage for the both of us, if you prefer sonic orb, by all means go with it instead.
My scorching rays are 12d6+12 after all. Magic Missiles are 5d4+15. Wings of Flurry and many jaws is 10d6+20
I do also have seeking ray, and I do count as Tiny, so I can hit most things with my rays already.
(Yeah I'm a sorcerer using plenty (actually more than half my spell slots) of spell slots for blast spells, whatcha gonna do about it?)
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(Yeah I'm a sorcerer using plenty (actually more than half my spell slots) of spell slots for blast spells, whatcha gonna do about it?)
Find some useful metamagics to apply to them for you :D So far the best I will be able to do is extend the many jaws so you can eat the whole town not just half of it. :lol
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I see the game sub-forum is up (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=170.0). Shall we post our character sheets in there for submission or do we wait here until the crew is picked?
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Your summoning circle has been prepared. I hope this silver was genuine. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=170)
start posting here, i will put up more in an hour or so. i got interrupted and have to step out for a moment.
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apparently mythweavers lost a few hours of data from their outage as well. all of the things I did to my sheet today are gone, despite having saved repeatedly.
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wow that really sucks man. if you want to keep a text version of it thats fine.
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Games almost filled, I believe we have one open spot so if your interested jump on it
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Did Midnight_v just steal the last spot or may I still join in?
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Did Midnight_v just steal the last spot or may I still join in?
*yoink*
:ninja
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Did Midnight_v just steal the last spot or may I still join in?
Well he did post there but he doesnt actually have anything submitted. Feel free to post as well
check your pm's