Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : kevin_video September 06, 2011, 06:19:23 AM
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Okay, so in my current campaign I was originally a crusader from ToB. However, due to circumstances that I was not able to fight against (ie. the players all playing chaotic evil or chaotic neutral [evil subtype] PCs except lawful me), I lost my crusader powers due to not being lawful enough (aka the crusader was house ruled into a cleric). So, my character got changed, and not necessarily for the better. I'm now a planar ranger 6/warblade 1/positive level 1/negative level 3 (aka LA +4) character. And the skills suck because my character got changed and all skills got put into cross-class skill spots, so everything's pretty much at 0. The -3 to everything doesn't help either.
So the advice I was given was continue up warblade only. That's cool. I'm alright with that. However, I'll probably take two dips into Fighter for the bonus feats because I really want Thicket of Blades, and Martial Stance is a bonus fighter feat. At 9th level I'll be taking Stand Still. If I could take another feat, I'd take Combat Reflexes, but that'll likely have to wait until 12. The question of course is what should I take in order to get Thicket of Blades. Well, I need one devoted ability, and I was thinking of going with Foehammer. I've already got Mountain Hammer, but getting passed DR has been really important as of late. However, I might be missing something, but Foehammer doesn't seem to have any prereqs. Am I reading that right? Well, other than being initiator level 2.
From that point on I'll likely retrain things, and get better stances and maneuvers. The only problem is I'm basically starting really late in the game.
Here was my thought. At 8 HD start this progression: warblade +4/fighter 2 (devoted maneuver and stance)/warblade +6/positive level +3. If I actually see passed that, I'll do something more. In the end I might be lucky enough to be an 11th level warblade/15th level initiator (8th lvl maneuvers). Which, is fine by me at this point. Heck, I'd be happy if this actually worked out this way. There's so many things that could get in the way of that.
So I guess my question is, what maneuvers and stances would be good for me to take for the rest of the campaign, assuming I actually manage to pull this off? Right now I've got the Hunter's Sense stance (come in pretty handy), Moment of the Perfect Mind (really handy, but be more handy if I could do it more than once a round), Mountain Hammer (extremely handy, but only against DR creatures), and Rabid Wolf's Strike.
Note that I don't have the proper weapon for any of the disciplines. It's a revised legacy weapon to fit Age of Worms.
Pretty sure I'm going to want the White Raven Tactics back. That was nice way back when. However, there's nothing good to take now at this level. Leading the Attack isn't all that great, but I guess if I hit it really doesn't matter.
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Why do you have 6 levels in ranger? It seems like that isn't really helping you much. Is this just a case of Hostile GM (tm)?
If so, just ask if you can play a straight Warblade. If not, ask if you can play a straight Fighter(if the GM thinks you're 'full of cheese', straight fighter might be what they need to stop fucking your character in the ass(if he thinks the fighter is 'too powerful', play a BC wizard... or just straight up ask him what class he won't nerf into the ground). Seriously, the whole 'you have to keep the skill ranks you had before except now they're cross class lol whoops hah' doesn't sound very promising.
As a low level warblade there isn't much you want... keep in mind your IL is actually like 4 or so, so you can get 2nd level maneuvers if you have the prereqs. Thicket of Blades is worth 2 feats if you want to play a defensive warblade (and a dip in crusader is out of the question, due to hostile GM bullshit). Keep in mind that since you only get shitty maneuvers you should never be using strikes, ever. Full attacks, AoOs (combat reflexes, reach weapon, stand still, thicket of blades etc) should be your source of damage, and maneuvers should be used for boosts etc. With LA +4 and 6 useless levels (ranger), you're never going to get good strikes, so i'd multiclass around and pick up what I could... swordsage (esp. if you have good wis)...fighter 2.... maybe even whirling frenzy pounce barbarian? (although hostile gm will come down on that like a pile of bricks).
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This has nothing to do with the DM other than the crusader house rule, and how I ended up with cross-class skills. Those cross-class ones originally being crusader skills. It was a module he adapted where if you walk through a particular path, you can change one thing about you. I changed my class. However, it doesn't change your skills with the class. Believe me, if a frenzy pouncing barbarian or straight up fighter was "too powerful", ToB wouldn't be allowed in the slightest. I couldn't be a barbarian anyways because of my alignment. We've already got two straight up fighters in the group. I ended up being a ranger because that's what we didn't have in the party, and my race gives me track.
I don't have good wisdom, but it's not terrible either. Swordsage could be a possibility, but with my -3 to everything right now, I can barely hit with my attacks as it is. Gaining a 3/4 BAB class right now might not be all that great for me.
Don't have a reach weapon. It does do more damage than a great axe, though. But yeah, I know my IL is only 4 right now. I'm not worried about playing a defensive warblade. It's just that I usually get surrounded a lot, and it'd be easier if they couldn't get away. I am learning that my regular attacks do more damage than a strike does, unless I'm fighting something with DR, or are hard to hit (ie Rabid Wolf Strike's +4 to hit has come in handy).
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Tis the season.
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Tis the season.
Oh, every day it's tis the season.
At least I'm not an archery based ranger.
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Since when can't Crusaders be chaotic?! Or, is this the house rule, that they have an alignment restriction like clerics, and your god was too lawful. In that case, I'd just angle to finding another deity.
As to the character, given that you want to play a TOB character, I guess Warblade it is. I like Shield Block from Devoted Spirit (paired w/ an Animated Shield or buckler if you are fighting two-handed) for party defense. Vanguard Strike is also pretty good if there are other attack types in the party.
That being said, I don't really see what good Thicket of Blades is doing for your build.
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No, it's just that my character was raised lawful neutral because of his father and god-father. So long as he doesn't become chaotic, or evil, neither one will willfully raise a hand to him (one's a demi-god, one's a chain devil epic sorcerer). Don't want to angry either one. Apparently I missed the meeting between players when it was decided we weren't going to play a lawful party anymore, and everyone let it be known that we were CE, or CN (evil subtype). One's CG thankfully. But yeah, the lawful part is what made me lose my powers because I ended up playing the character too neutral.
Thicket of Blades was the original build I was going for with the crusader because it looked fun. The reason I want to try and do it now is because the enemies have a tendency to always run away. Can't run away if you'll provoke AoO, even if it's a 5 ft shift.
Shield Block would probably be nice if the party actually stuck around for that kind of bonus. Right now the party's basically out for themselves. Go figure, huh? It's all about head counts, and splitting the party. No synergy at all, minus the cleric who's thankfully the good one and actually heals us when we need it. Vanguard Strike would work for anyone we're flanking with. One PC is a fighter/tactical soldier so that might balance well.
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Uh.. you went ranger because that's what the party 'didn't have'? And you already had Track from your race?
...why?
All ranger gives is skills... and for some reason you don't get to change those from your other class anyway? So... what purpose ranger, exactly? (ranger also gives bonus feats, in the form of Track, TWF, and Archery, but less than a fighter... and prepicked..)
Why not just 'change your class' to Warblade? Warblade 7 is eminently more useful in combat than ranger 6/warblade 1, and apparently your skills are screwed six ways from sunday anyway?
As for to-hit..well.. as a melee character with LA-4 you're not going to be hitting very much without a good str and good bonuses to hit. Swordsage doesn't add 1 BAB, but it does give ways to hit touch ACs. The point of Thicket of Blades is a reach weapon. Without one, you will be slightly sticky, sure, but nowhere near sticky enough. You also need Stand Still/or Improved Trip. If you don't have ANY of the feats required to get those (2 feats for thicket of blades, 1 for stand still, 2 for imp. trip unless you dip barbarian), you're likely not going to get them unless you dip fighter before the campaign ends. In which case I would dip fighter, as currently warblade is doing Very Little (tm) for you, as you have abilities suitable for a 1st level warblade at what, level 11? Swordsage abilities (mostly boosts) are way more useful at higher levels.. thus the suggestion of a dip, plus a higher IL + 8 known abilities means what, possibility of 2nd or 3rd level stances/boosts?
Eurgh, actually, on reading your first post again it seems you're already planning to do something like that. But you are kind of screwed... getting level appropriate to-hit and damage is actually going to be a struggle, much less anything else useful like feat combos or good manoeuvres. First step for getting a higher to hit, given ToB, would usually be a Discipline weapon... but you've got some kind of greataxe that is campaign-required, which is fantastic, as it means you don't/can't get a reach weapon or anything good on your weapon. Alright. Well. Belt of Giant Strength? I guess? I'd suggest dipping barbarian for whirling frenzy, pounce, and imp. trip, for a total of +6 to hit (including imp. trip) but with your GM i'd avoid anything with an alignment pre-requisite like the plague. Other than that... there are a lot of cleric buffs that could give you some bonuses. Recitation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, hell, even Divine Favour or Bull's Strength. Put your head together with the cleric and see what he can do for you in terms of buffs.
Also, take the 2 levels of fighter now, as opposed to later. Crappy 2nd level warblade maneuvers aren't doing crap for you at the moment, you need to get some kind of useful abilities up and working. Thicket Of Blades + Stand Still isn't amazing without a reach weapon, but it's not terrible.
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He can't change things to be USEFUL because this is kevin_video we are talking about. You know, the one with the absolute insane DM?
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Truth be told, I took the solitary hunting trapfinding strongarm planar ranger (gave up animal companion for bonus to hit FE, gave up additional tracking for trapfinding and disable device, as well as PA/Imp.BR/G.Cleave as feats), and I didn't have a clue about the whole cross-class skill thing until after it was done. Basically, I found out the hard way what was done. Had I done it the super slow way, and retrained everything over the course of the next seven levels, I could have gotten the most out of the deal. If I'd know before hand, I'd have gone warblade, but even then I would have been even more screwed because warblade and crusader share as many skills together as a ranger does. At least a ranger gets 6+int for skill points. Live and learn.
Barbarian is out because you have to be lawful. Cleric is also out because then I'd have to be lawful, and if it cost me my crusader abilities, guaranteed it's going to cost me my cleric ones too. That being said, I could buy the spells as custom items at a ridiculous price because we don't have MIC custom item rules, but the original SRD, which makes things x1.5 or x2 the cost of items if placed in areas that they shouldn't go, or slotless. So a resistance cloak of charisma +2 would cost a boatload of gold instead of just 5k.
I'm considering re-training at least one level of ranger to make it warblade 3/ranger 5 next level. Everything we fight is basically my FE right now. So I have the bonus to hit, and the bonus to damage, and it's +4 each time. This negates the -3 I currently have for negative levels, and the lack of 1 BAB for the positive level I do have.
Swordsage was something I was considering, but I didn't know if I could do anything with it as it is 3/4 BAB, but if I can get useful stuff, I'd gladly take it in a heartbeat. Bonus to AC wouldn't hurt.
I wouldn't mind a belt +6 if I could get one. Most of the treasure we get are useful items, but no gold for us to afford anything. It's mostly plot items. I've actually sold some of mine so far, as has another guy, and we've both been told that there will be consequences for doing that. We're waiting for it to happen. Not gleefully though.
I am more than willing to dip into fighter for two feats, but the question of course begs what two feats? Martial Study and Martial Stance? That was my original plan. Would that still be a good idea? The problem with a reach weapon is unless you have the feats, you can use it in close combat. As well, we're using the Pathfinder rules for Imp Trip and I know how much you guys like those rules.
My Strength is naturally 20, but it might as well be 12 with the minuses I get. Same for AC. I'm also ECL 8 right now because of the negatives.
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What the hell is this 'positive level/negative level' business? Do you mean your LA? What?
If it's actually 'negative levels'.. uh.. you said you had a cleric in the party, right? Restoration gets rid of those. Although I guess it's some kind of bullshit hostile GM special 'screw you forever' negative levels? What the hell is a 'positive level'?
Right now, the only kind of melee combo you have a snail's chance in hell of pulling off is lockdown. That typical requires thicket of blades, Stand Still/Imp. Trip, and a reach weapon. It can kind of work without a reach weapon but then you're going toe to toe and you don't actually have the AC or hp to deal with that.
So um... I guess you could try dipping fighter twice and picking up something else? PA, Imp. bullrush and then shock trooper? It would let you do a tiny bit of ubercharging, but you'd probably get banned for that.
So your skills stayed the same but now cost double? So you get more for being a ranger, but due to cross class skills everything is super expensive and you end up with not much left at all anyway? That doesn't sound worth being a ranger for.
Even if EVERYTHING is your primary favoured enemy, you're still better off going warblade. Warblade maneuvers, while not as good as swordsage maneuvers, do a hell of a lot more than +4 dmg +4 to hit. And sooner or later you'll be fighting stuff that isn't your favoured enemy and you'll suck even harder than you do now.
Barbarian requires any NON-lawful. Unless your GM has changed that. And since you aren't lawful cause you lost crusader, then you aren't lawful for barbarian, but still, your gm will probably fuck you for using it.
As for cleric buffs, you said you had a cleric in the party, right? I didn't mean take levels in cleric (level 1 cleric spells are not very good at level 12.), I meant get him to buff you.
The only redeeming part of your ranger levels is the PA/Imp. BR feats. It sets you up for Ubercharging. Shock Trooper, alone, which you qualify for, will let you charge and do +18 damage. If you pick up Pounce from barbarian, you can do that and full attack. With Cleave, if you down a target doing that, you'll get another attack at +18 damage. This costs you absolutely no to-hit. It tanks your AC, but hey, apparently your AC isn't amazing to begin with.
Grab a couple of miss chances (minor cloak of displacement etc) and start ubercharging. If you can, get on a horse, use a lance. A valorous, Discipline lance. Keep your greataxe as your hand to hand weapon. you don't need mounted combat to be on a horse. it just lets you negate hits. All you need is ride, and you can put points into that when you level up. And if you have a light warhorse, i.e. a war-trained horse, 75gp, then you don't even need ride. If it dies? Shrug. Buy another.
I'd say use Battle Jump as well, but your GM wouldn't allow that.
Improved Sunder and Combat Brute let you get the damage bonus of charging, the round after you charge (momentum swing). After that, you can look into permanent enlargement, Dungeoncrashing (level 2 of fighter), and the Knockback feat.
Get rid of as many levels of ranger as you can that doesn't compromise your PA/Bullrush feats... given that warblade gives bonus feats (3 at level 7, if i'm correct) AND gives maneuvers, maybe just tank all your levels of ranger and get warblade instead. If you're only allowed to change 1/lvl, it will be slow and painful, but you'll eventually get to warblade X/fighter 2/barbarian 1-2 and be competent.
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Wait a sec.. Your character has a positive level and three negative levels? I'm looking at the rules and it says positive levels always go away after 24 hours. Likewise, the bonuses gained from the positive level are canceled out, and then some, by your negative levels. Heck, the positive level itself should nullify a negative level. What the smeg is going on here?
If you're still lawful then the crusader change shouldn't have been able to go through. A cleric only loses his powers when he actually changes alignment. If you aren't lawful, how the smeg wouldn't you be able to take Barbarian levels? Let me guess, your DM said that you have to technically be lawful neutral but can't take anything with an alignment restriction? Bullshit. He's obviously not going by the motto "Keep it simple, stupid."
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Guys you are forgetting that this is KEVIN_VIDEO'S DM. He is... well known for screwing players and characters over in hideously unfair ways which I am surprised don't incite physical violence.
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Guys you are forgetting that this is KEVIN_VIDEO'S DM. He is... well known for screwing players and characters over in hideously unfair ways which I am surprised don't incite physical violence.
Guy must be a sadist or something.
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Negative levels are negative modifiers you take to attack, AC, saves, skills, save DCs on spells, etc when you have LA. Say you're LA +4. That means you're technically 5th level at lvl 1. Not with the negative level rules in Forgotten Realms. You instead are level 1, but with -4 to everything. When you buy it off, you gain a positive level. This means you have one less minus to everything. Restoration does nothing. You have to buy it all off.
I am LN. I act more neutral than lawful, but I still have the alignment. This means I can't be barbarian, or take any class that requires you to be non-lawful. I may not act it, but I've still for the alignment. I lost crusader because while I was LN, I didn't act lawful enough, and my powers were stripped. And no, changing my alignment to something else is not an option. Not unless I want to completely screw over this character and make him completely unplayable. And no, he'll never die, and no, I'll never get a new character because of that. Unless I die, and beg the DM to roll the random table on the reincarnate spell, and I happen to get something decent as a race because of that. Which of course will also incite consequences as we'll see with another PC who took that route willfully.
If I want to keep Imp. BR and PA, I have to stay as a ranger 6, which gives me my second combat style feat. Shock Trooper would be great if I ever charged. I don't. It happens very rarely. I have a couple of spells that let me do pounce, or do double damage on a pounce, but after I took Charging Minotaur and Leading the Charge back when I was a crusader, all enemies got "the memo" and now all enemies are either on higher ground, invisible at will, or readied for charges. And that's if we're even in terrain that lets you charge. This applies to the dungeoncrasher as well.
The cross-class skill buy would have happened no matter what class I took. Whether rogue, ranger, fighter, warblade, cleric, whatever. That is, unless I had been human with Able Learner, or I had taken a class that had all of the exact same class skills that a crusader did.
The sooner or later part of not being my FE will never happen. There's a homebrew feat that the DM made that makes everything your FE forever. It just costs you a move action. It's like quarry from PF.
The cleric in the party, just so he wouldn't get screwed over too much, especially now that we know that an item exists that when you get hit, you lose prepared spells, he became a spontaneous caster. Think a cleric version of a favored soul, but without turn undead (PF variant now) or the feats.
Miss chances mean nothing when most of the things out there have greater invisibility, blind-fight, and especially true seeing. Then there's items that negate miss chances and concealment.
I have no ride skill as a class skill. I traded it for tumble instead. As well, I can barely afford to keep my character alive and in gold. I can't afford an animal. Especially one that's likely going to die every round.
We never use Sunder because an enemy's equipment is our only way of getting money. If anything of theirs gets sundered, we lose gobs of money, and then there's more turmoil between the party. Vow of Poverty would be great to counter balance what happens in the games, but that's banned.
Permanent enlargement is only permanent if you cast it yourself. A good enough dispel check will negate that, and cause you to lose all of your money.
Guys you are forgetting that this is KEVIN_VIDEO'S DM. He is... well known for screwing players and characters over in hideously unfair ways which I am surprised don't incite physical violence.
Not physical violence, but there have been many, very loud arguments where I thought violence would ensue, and I wasn't apart of those.
And no, nothing's ever simple. You don't even want to know how my race came about. He explained the math, the alignment of the stars and moon, the combination of races and bloodlines over time, and everything else as to how my character was created. Everyone in the group was floored.
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Find a psion for psychic reformation?
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Find a psion for psychic reformation?
Well we do know a psion, two actually, but you'd have to join the Topaz Guardians in order to gain their help.
Just so everyone knows, I fully own up to be in the wrong here.
1) I didn't "keep it simple stupid". I wanted to be extravagant, and unlike everyone else in the party, didn't stick to core stuff, causing this all to happen.
2) I actually agreed to playing a LA +4 race because I didn't have to also take the 6 HD that went along with it, thinking I got a great deal (still a better deal than the +11 LA race I would have originally gotten).
2) I chose to play a crusader without a reach weapon.
3) When it looked like I was completely screwed, which I wasnt, I let my frustration get the best of me, and ended up with the character conundrum change that we have now because I went for the easy way out, without looking at the consequences of my actions (ie the cross-class skill thing).
4) I didn't have a plan going into this when I decided on a whim what to change the character to.
There's probably other things I could probably confess to, but it's 3 AM and I'm tired. Originally we had no cleric in the party so I was the healer... when I hit. Otherwise I'd have just gone duskblade like I'd originally wanted to. Although, I wouldn't have had any access to wraithstrike to compensate for my -4 to everything.
At this point I don't even care about being effective. I just don't want to be any worse off.
An idea I had was ranger 5/warblade 1/battle sorcerer 1/abjurant champion 5/jade phoenix mage 8. Because I was originally crusader, I've definitely got the charisma. Weapon's already got a wand chamber on it, so just have a couple wands of wraithstrike, and I'd be pretty good.
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Mystic Ranger Prestige Paladin Ruby Knight Vindicator? Battle Blessing, SotAO, etc.. Fighter 2 dip should help here.. I guess this won't do, but w/e, just typing random thoughts here... I find the situation overtly crippling even w/ what you said.. like, seriously..? ;/
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Kevin, you're like a beaten wife asking us to help you pick a dress that matches your black eyes.
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I see 2 options here:
1/Kill your character and play a new one :fu
2/Kill the DM :smirk
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Mystic Ranger Prestige Paladin Ruby Knight Vindicator? Battle Blessing, SotAO, etc.. Fighter 2 dip should help here.. I guess this won't do, but w/e, just typing random thoughts here... I find the situation overtly crippling even w/ what you said.. like, seriously..? ;/
The option won't even be looked at by the DM.
Kevin, you're like a beaten wife asking us to help you pick a dress that matches your black eyes.
Make me look pretty. Just don't chose polka dots.
I see 2 options here:
1/Kill your character and play a new one :fu
2/Kill the DM :smirk
You need to get your eyes checked.
1) Killing my character only makes it worse (you can't die, just have templates added to it or random reincarnate for race but keep class).
2) Jail's not worth it.
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Kevin for a while it was amusing to see your horror stories about your gaming group. Now though it is just painful to watch. Please just tell this DM to go fuck himself until he realizes how much of a douche bag he is being and just play PbP. I know it isn't as good as playing F2F but anything is better than tolerating this guys crap.
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Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
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Kevin for a while it was amusing to see your horror stories about your gaming group. Now though it is just painful to watch. Please just tell this DM to go fuck himself until he realizes how much of a douche bag he is being and just play PbP. I know it isn't as good as playing F2F but anything is better than tolerating this guys crap.
I have my own group. Two of the guys from this group play in mine. Mine's the one you play in, the other's the one you basically fool around in.
Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
Okay, I'll just stop making posts about this. If my PC's really that far gone, I'll deal with it on my own.
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Good luck,
But you should apply your signature's quotes to your actual situation:
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.
When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.
:rollseyes
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Good luck,
But you should apply your signature's quotes to your actual situation:
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.
When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.
:rollseyes
Unfortunately in game terms, the DM makes his own reality and you can't input your own. And I'm my own god giving out sweeter lemons than I knew possible.
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I then recommend you use these miracle tablets and share some with your DM also (it can't hurt, I guess)
http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/accessories/ab3f/ (http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/accessories/ab3f/)
Let me know if you need a new miracle ;)
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Good luck,
But you should apply your signature's quotes to your actual situation:
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.
When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.
:rollseyes
Unfortunately in game terms, the DM makes his own reality and you can't input your own. And I'm my own god giving out sweeter lemons than I knew possible.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" - Cave Johnson
I suggest you listen to Cave Johnson.
-K
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Since you are already Lawful Neutral, you might want to consider a couple of levels in incarnate. Lawful incarnates have lots of ways to bust attack bonuses, plus there are soulmelds to help actually being average at a few of your lost skills.
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I don't think kevin should stop bringing these problems here... it's still a min/max problem, it just adds the [stealth] tag. It has to look 'Core' and seem 'Core' and gygaxian and yet, not suck.
The DM seems to like ToB. Well, just the Warblade. And the ranger, if that homebrewed feat is any guide. He just doesn't get that the feat doesn't actually make ranger better... the point of ranger is the skills, only, ever, and bonus feats if you were gonna take those ones anyway... it's a decent fighter substitute dip, just like monk. So my suggestion? Play a warblade. Don't ubercharge, just find feats that add to your damage, to-hit, and AC. (fyi- on not ubercharging; the point of taking shock trooper is that you charge more after you get it - flour/glitterdust or see invis + flight solves nearly all ubercharging problems... and if enemies are invisible, screws over all melee, not just you... sit back and let them sort it out)
Having a high AC, to hit, and damage, means you'll succeed more and it won't be obvious why. You won't be pulling out some combo or repeated action for your DM to fixate on. It's a stealth way of being good at your job.
However, the sorcerer gish thing could also work. Keep in mind, text trumps table, jade phoenix mage gives full casting. Don't tell your DM this. Don't point it out. Don't mention it. Just quietly add 1 CL and new spells each time you level up. If he comes to you going 'YOU ONLY GET HALF SPELLS' act like you thought he knew and mention that it 'got errata'd' so the table matches text. Don't volunteer ANYTHING, that will just get you targeted with the nerfbat, as any kind of mentioning anything will be taken as permission-asking for cheese.
Your DM is in full gygaxian DM vs players mindset. You are supposed to be, in this kind of 'relationship', keeping your sheet hidden and never being 'too good' or you'll get nerfed, or instakilled.
If you're not going/can't go ubercharger, drop those ranger levels like bad news. If you're going sorcerer, replace ranger with sorcerer each time you level up. Note: It's very hard to nerfbat buff spells without seeming unfair. Especially PHB buff spells. If he tries to, keep repeating 'But it's PHB!' over and over in a shocked and stunned kind of way, and he'll stop. Belief in the 'balance' of 'core' is central to GMs/players like him. They think 'Extend Spell' is super-weak. And that fireball is really powerful.
Also, your list of reasons as to why you 'were in the wrong' and 'invited this to happen' is really really eerily similar to the kinds of things beaten women say to police officers. Seriously.
Oh, and my overly pretentious hipster boyfriend asked me to note; 'Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.'
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^ +1
Is it wrong that I play D&D all the time but want to consign Gygax to the Hell of the Boiling Oil?
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^ +1
Is it wrong that I play D&D all the time but want to consign Gygax to the Hell of the Boiling Oil?
You have to realize that what are considered classic 'gygaxian' modules were designed for tournaments at conventions, where killing off PCs quickly and humorously was the objective from the get-go, and nobody had much invested in their characters.
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Except the handbooks he wrote specifically instruct the DM to engage in the kind of dickish behaviours kevin's GM engages in.
To be honest, the really hard 'kill your players' modules don't bother me nearly as much as the 'kill off players who are doing too well', 'cheat', and 'make your players fear you' advice in some of those rules books.
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I don't think kevin should stop bringing these problems here... it's still a min/max problem, it just adds the [stealth] tag. It has to look 'Core' and seem 'Core' and gygaxian and yet, not suck.
The DM seems to like ToB. Well, just the Warblade. And the ranger, if that homebrewed feat is any guide. He just doesn't get that the feat doesn't actually make ranger better... the point of ranger is the skills, only, ever, and bonus feats if you were gonna take those ones anyway... it's a decent fighter substitute dip, just like monk. So my suggestion? Play a warblade. Don't ubercharge, just find feats that add to your damage, to-hit, and AC. (fyi- on not ubercharging; the point of taking shock trooper is that you charge more after you get it - flour/glitterdust or see invis + flight solves nearly all ubercharging problems... and if enemies are invisible, screws over all melee, not just you... sit back and let them sort it out)
Having a high AC, to hit, and damage, means you'll succeed more and it won't be obvious why. You won't be pulling out some combo or repeated action for your DM to fixate on. It's a stealth way of being good at your job.
However, the sorcerer gish thing could also work. Keep in mind, text trumps table, jade phoenix mage gives full casting. Don't tell your DM this. Don't point it out. Don't mention it. Just quietly add 1 CL and new spells each time you level up. If he comes to you going 'YOU ONLY GET HALF SPELLS' act like you thought he knew and mention that it 'got errata'd' so the table matches text. Don't volunteer ANYTHING, that will just get you targeted with the nerfbat, as any kind of mentioning anything will be taken as permission-asking for cheese.
Your DM is in full gygaxian DM vs players mindset. You are supposed to be, in this kind of 'relationship', keeping your sheet hidden and never being 'too good' or you'll get nerfed, or instakilled.
If you're not going/can't go ubercharger, drop those ranger levels like bad news. If you're going sorcerer, replace ranger with sorcerer each time you level up. Note: It's very hard to nerfbat buff spells without seeming unfair. Especially PHB buff spells. If he tries to, keep repeating 'But it's PHB!' over and over in a shocked and stunned kind of way, and he'll stop. Belief in the 'balance' of 'core' is central to GMs/players like him. They think 'Extend Spell' is super-weak. And that fireball is really powerful.
Also, your list of reasons as to why you 'were in the wrong' and 'invited this to happen' is really really eerily similar to the kinds of things beaten women say to police officers. Seriously.
Oh, and my overly pretentious hipster boyfriend asked me to note; 'Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.'
The DM doesn't hate anything other than campaign breaking stuff that should be super nerfed. He's all about the RAW. Hence you'd never go sorcerer/cleric/mystic theurge on the principle that it doesn't say that you gain spells known. Of course you should never take this, but still. You can take whatever class you want, you just can't whatever PrC you want (eg Prestige Paladin, etc) when there's a base race version. He'll also tell you when you're taking a stupid PrC, even if you think it's awesome, because it actually sucks, and recommend other ones instead. He's even changed a few of the feats that are actually better in PF than they were in 3.5, or if that's not possible, he homebrews his own based on ideas he's read in dragon magazines. Like the fact that there's three Weapon Finesse stacking feats, and Improved Critical stacks with Keen again.
The problem with trying to get a high AC is that we're at a point now where either everything hits you, or nothing does. There's nothing in between. The joys of mid-level.
Where can I reference "text trumps table" because we don't build our characters. He handles our character sheets. It's all done on his computer program that he developed to update all of our characters and his NPCs. He knows full well that ToB doesn't have an errata. And I can take whatever spells I want so long as it's not third party. If every spell I took was from SpC, he wouldn't care. He'd just want a reference. He won't worry about nerfbatting spells. He only nerfbats feats. Well, except polymorph. That's the PF version now. Better than not having it at all.
If I go uber charger, I'll dip into fighter next level and take Shocktrooper. Honestly, I don't know what the best course of action would be. I've got a decent set of skills ready to go for sorcerer and abjurant champion. I've got a mithral animated shield so that could cause some interference for spellcasting until I get twilight on it.
As for my reasons that I mentioned, while they may sound like that of a beaten wife, note that a beaten wife has only herself to blame, if in frustration, she decides to step on a planted mine before looking where she's walking.
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Where can I reference "text trumps table" because we don't build our characters.
PHB errata here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). First paragraph. And I think it's in every errata file.
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Where can I reference "text trumps table" because we don't build our characters.
PHB errata here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). First paragraph. And I think it's in every errata file.
That's likely going to be very useful.
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Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
Okay, I'll just stop making posts about this. If my PC's really that far gone, I'll deal with it on my own.
It's not that you shouldn't bring min/max problems to us - you should, it's what we're here for - it's that the issues you put forth are not something that we can solve via character optimization. You have an idiot for a DM who is, either out of willful spite or blinding incompetence, ruining the game for you and no amount of powergaming on our part can heal your wounds. At most we can give you a morphine drip.
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Plus, you would stop bothering me with inane posts. That's always a plus in my book.
Okay, I'll just stop making posts about this. If my PC's really that far gone, I'll deal with it on my own.
It's not that you shouldn't bring min/max problems to us - you should, it's what we're here for - it's that the issues you put forth are not something that we can solve via character optimization. You have an idiot for a DM who is, either out of willful spite or blinding incompetence, ruining the game for you and no amount of powergaming on our part can heal your wounds. At most we can give you a morphine drip.
Morphine's good. Makes you love everybody.
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LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!
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LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!
lol But the world would be such a better place if there was only love.
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LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!
Says the man with the blackmage theme.
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LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!
Says the man with the blackmage theme.
Love is ALWAYS the answer!
(http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/poweredbylove.jpg?w=450)
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OK, so by RAW,
Morphine -> Love
Love -> ALWAYS the answer
Morphine -> ALWAYS an answer?
-K
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Kevin, so far your DM's interpretation of 'RAW' seems to involve really dodgy alternate faerun rules variants and ignoring the FAQ (mystic theurge grants spells known. This has been gone over in the errata. This has been gone over in the FAQ. By RAW, it does it anyway. The designers have personally said that assuming that it doesn't give spells known is a classic mistake in reading the rules and the sign of someone over-rules-lawyering), getting rid of class powers/abilities for bullshit reasons (at no point anywhere in crusader does it ever mention any kind of cleric or paladin code - also, I have never seen a sane DM play the paladin code 'if you're in a group with someone who does something bad you autofall' thing... even the code in the PHB says that it's an 'example'), interpreting things in a way that screws over players/abilities he doesn't like (crusader thing again, everything else you've ever said, 'can't build a charger because he makes everything unchargeable') and metagames the fuck out of the world to screw over people he doesn't like (charger thing, other stuff you've said).
Maybe in his mind he's within the rules, but he's taking the 1% and 5% interpretations of RAW in order to fuel his own prejudices, being a dick in every non-RAW way, and basically screwing over anyone and everyone in his game (probably even himself... I doubt with all the worrying he's doing over crusaders being broken and players constantly 'taking advantage' of him he's had much fun in the game). All of that makes him, in my mind, a hostile GM. A Lawful one as opposed to a Chaotic one, but still Evil. You don't need to actually ignore the rules in order to be a bad/hostile GM. It just makes it more twisted and hard for players to understand what is going on cause it seems like you're following the rules but everything is shit and everyone is playing a game of 'mother may I' with the DM in the hope he won't fuck over their character forever and make them useless and not have fun and then not let them reroll 'because it's not realistic' (because one character leaving the party for whatever reason and another joining totally never happens ever).
If your GM thinks that spells are A-Okay and that fighters are broken, go fucking sorcerer.(or thinks feats are too powerful/can be nerfed and spells can't/shouldn't.. whatever). Don't go anything with a alignment requirement. Don't go anything with any kind of code. Don't go into a prestige class with anything non-crunch required('requires membership in the X', 'chaotic alignment', 'must maintain a relationship with the griffonlickers of aglarond'). Don't take anything that relies on feats, apparently. Don't go anything that does a whole lot of damage in one go, it will likely get nerfed or 'changed' or suddenly bad things will happen to your character or everything will be immune to fire forever for no reason(classic hostile/bad GM thing - thinking 'big numbers' means 'broken'. The amount of times i've seen chargers get crucified while full attack fighters (who do 30 per hit instead of 150 in one hit once per round) who do double their damage and have more hp and flexibility get ignored, and wizards who take out whole rooms with one spell get told they're 'weak'...). Don't talk about, worry about, or ask about, any kind of mechanics at the table. That will get you nerfed.
Also, the thing with people in positions of less power blaming themselves when they get abused ('I should have known not to wear the green dress, he hates that') is a genuine psychological thing that humans do so that they can survive. They rationalize that they are wrong for making perfectly reasonable decisions/choices because the person in power didn't like it - even if they had no idea the person in power didn't like it until they got beat up.
That's basically exactly what you're doing.
And please don't say that it's the beaten woman's fault. Maybe in like 0.1% of cases the beaten woman is intentionally baiting the person in power as part of some kind of labyrinthine guilt trip, but that kind of suicide gambit requires too much power given up for most manipulative people to even consider doing it (at least on purpose, which is what you're implying). There is never any legitimate reason to beat someone up, physically or emotionally, if you are in a position of power. Full stop.
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LOVE IS NOT THE ANSWER HERE!!!
Says the man with the blackmage theme.
Love is ALWAYS the answer!
(http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/poweredbylove.jpg?w=450)
Noooo! My secret has been found out!
Now you all know too much.
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@ Rejakor -- We're getting off topic so I'll just send my response as a message.