Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Bortasz April 01, 2011, 09:52:42 AM
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Little Mathematics here will be. For simplicity all spells are casteth by 12 lvl Wizard
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfIron.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fabricate.htm
http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm
Iron Wall Create Iron wall whose area is up to:
So we have
1,5m High
1,5m wide
2,5cm thick + 2,5 cm for evry 4 lvl.... (4,8,12) = 2,5+2,5+2,5+2,5= 10cm
All that we can create twelve times because we have 12 lvl. So we make only:
1,5m High
1,5m wide
1,2m Thick (10cm*12lvl= 120cm= 1,2m)
That give us 1,5*1,5*1,2= 2,7 of Pure iron... In third link you will see that 1cubic of iron weight 7850
So we create 2,7*7850 = 21 195 kg of iron
Fabricate can change 0,027(iron) * 12lvl = 0,32 to ready Items... We have 2,7 so it will take 9 spells.. For 12 lvl wizard witch 20 int its work for 3 days...
Craft is Class skill and its based on Int... so our wizzard will have 20 + dice in Craft Armorsmithing. ST for Breastplate is 15...
Breastplate cost 200 gold and weight 15kg... so from One Wall of Iron we can create 1 413 of breastplate. If we sold them for 100 gold... we will have 141 300 gold... for three days of Work.
If he have Rod of Absorption it will be faster.
And no imagine haw many Gold can earn our Wizard...
This is Legal?
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Welcome to the world of the Wish Economy :) The Salt Cow trick is faster though.
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I don't cnow that Trick. Can you explain? Or give me a link to Handbook of Wish economy?
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Keep in mind:
1 pound of iron is 1 sp.
Making an item takes 1/3 worth of its price in raw materials.
If you got your math right, your wizard has 46,629lbs. of iron, or 4662.9gp worth of raw materials.
(It costs you 50gp - in gold - to cast the spell in the first place.)
You can therefore make up to 13988.7gp iron goods, total, out of your walls of iron. The rest is ruined or scrap or melted as a sacrifice to the gods or who knows what.
You can then sell these for half price or use as you will.
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I don't cnow that Trick. Can you explain? Or give me a link to Handbook of Wish economy?
Well, Wish Economy is a bit more convoluted, but the Salt Cow involves using Flesh to Salt on a nice fat cow and then selling the salt for WAY more than the cow was bought for. Repeat ad nauseum for insane wealth.
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Consider buying a 10' ladder and taking it apart. I hear 10' poles are all the rage.
Consider playing a chicken infested commoner and opening up a fast food business.(probably the only one of these tricks I'd actually allow in a game I run)
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Consider buying a 10' ladder and taking it apart. I hear 10' poles are all the rage.
Consider playing buying a chicken infested commoner and opening up a fast food business.(probably the only one of these tricks I'd actually allow in a game I run)
Fixed. Gotta keep that Wizardly Image (tm) afterall...in particular if you're a Thayan, as then it's downright expected.
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Course, if a kingdom already has a government-employed 12th-level wizard other than you, it will be a lot more difficult to sell iron goods. If they don't have available people who can do this, it will be a lot more difficult to buy the neat magic items you want, and you may actually have to invest feats in the matter. :p And there's probably generally only so much demand for iron goods in a given place; be cautious about your sales.
(If you actually intended to figure out the consequences of this rather than only caring about RAW.)
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Consider buying a 10' ladder and taking it apart. I hear 10' poles are all the rage.
Consider playing buying a chicken infested commoner and opening up a fast food business.(probably the only one of these tricks I'd actually allow in a game I run)
Fixed. Gotta keep that Wizardly Image (tm) afterall...in particular if you're a Thayan, as then it's downright expected.
This reminds me of Undercover Brother. Billy Dee Williams' character opening up a chicken chain instead of running for President because "The Man" brainwashed him. Stop being "The Man" KellKheraptis. :shakefist
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Wall of salt works better, salt is worth more than iron for some reason.
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Personally, I think iron breastplates suck. At 1st level, I wouldn't buy anything less than steel breastplates myself. :)
There's many tricks to breaking the economy... just do a search here for "breaking the economy" (or other combinations of keywords like Cow and Salt). It should provide you with hours of fun reading.
In any game, the limiting factor on how far you can abuse this is the DM. If you are the DM, it is up to you to control the flow of wealth and decide for yourself what you believe is reasonable. If you are the player, just remember that "Wealth by Level" guidelines exist for game balance. If you are generating more wealth than appropriate, then it is reasonable to have an abundance of adventure thrown at you.
Some ways a DM can provide balance:
- Limit the quantity that can be sold in any given region, and balance with lower-loot-providing encounters to balance out the wealth by level.
- Require that some form of money is spent to aid in production (like Drow of the Underdark requires 1/6th the raw material cost if you can provide your own raw materials for poison making).
- Limit the quantity that can be sold based on the ability of the seller to "Make a sale"... (Profit made = Profession [merchant] skill check to earn a salary, with a +2 circumstance bonus for owning the goods).
- Provide the players a house rule limiting such strategies to what the DM considers reasonable.
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Wall of salt works better, salt is worth more than iron for some reason.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=iron-ore
In the last 6 months, iron ore(67.55% iron content) has ranged in price from 140-180 CENTS per metric ton. so for the pure iron, that's about 3 dollars a TON.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090619135942AAq0wAq
Salt apparently sells for $18-$20 a ton.(as of 2 years ago... but still).
Sooo... yah. Salt costs about 6-7 times as much as iron, by weight.
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Stop being "The Man" KellKheraptis. :shakefist
Lmao, can I siggy that?
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Stop being "The Man" KellKheraptis. :shakefist
Lmao, can I siggy that?
It was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw a wizard usurping my poor commoner. He's chicken infested, isn't that enough already. If he refuses to be bought, he gets dominated....arrgh. He should have taken the corpse flaw. Yeah, you can siggy that.
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Wall of salt works better, salt is worth more than iron for some reason.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=iron-ore
In the last 6 months, iron ore(67.55% iron content) has ranged in price from 140-180 CENTS per metric ton. so for the pure iron, that's about 3 dollars a TON.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090619135942AAq0wAq
Salt apparently sells for $18-$20 a ton.(as of 2 years ago... but still).
Sooo... yah. Salt costs about 6-7 times as much as iron, by weight.
I think you mean the salt you eat, which not only has to be salt but also has to be safe to eat. That safe to eat bit is expensive in medieval times.
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Wall of salt works better, salt is worth more than iron for some reason.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=iron-ore
In the last 6 months, iron ore(67.55% iron content) has ranged in price from 140-180 CENTS per metric ton. so for the pure iron, that's about 3 dollars a TON.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090619135942AAq0wAq
Salt apparently sells for $18-$20 a ton.(as of 2 years ago... but still).
Sooo... yah. Salt costs about 6-7 times as much as iron, by weight.
You can't really use iron ore as an index though - it takes a lot of refining to get it to decent purity. At least use scrap iron (http://www.metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/fe/fe.asp) for your pricing - which works out to a minimum of $300 per ton.
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if one applies psuedo real-world energy to matter conversions to this, eventually the elemental plane inhabitants will get ticked at the prime for leeching so much of a given element. might be fun to play it that way as an unforseen consequence. ^^
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I'm pretty sure those planes are infinite, so it's hardly an issue. Also, Wizards who can cast Wall of Iron can often Plane Shift as well, so it's unlikely that the material plane is the only one doing it.
This is one reason I nerf Wall of Iron such that any Iron removed from the wall vanishes (attempting to reshape the wall, such as via Fabricate, causes the reworked part to vanish as well). That way the wall works as intended without being an endless source of wealth. I do the same for Wall of Stone. As for turning people into salt, I just said the salt they turn into has a strange taste to it, a chemical-like burning that's very unpleasant. As such, it has no real value. Three broken spells fixed, thousands to go...
JaronK
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I'm pretty sure those planes are infinite, so it's hardly an issue. Also, Wizards who can cast Wall of Iron can often Plane Shift as well, so it's unlikely that the material plane is the only one doing it.
This is one reason I nerf Wall of Iron such that any Iron removed from the wall vanishes (attempting to reshape the wall, such as via Fabricate, causes the reworked part to vanish as well). That way the wall works as intended without being an endless source of wealth. I do the same for Wall of Stone. As for turning people into salt, I just said the salt they turn into has a strange taste to it, a chemical-like burning that's very unpleasant. As such, it has no real value. Three broken spells fixed, thousands to go...
JaronK
Also, the rulebook doesn't tell us what type of salt it is. Everybody just assume that it's kitchen salt (IE NaCl), because that is what is most common to assume. You could just as well have a KCr2 Which is very pretty.
Also, even though you can't eat the salt, you can still use it as a building material. Which would still make it pretty valuable.
I usually just make the argument that if you do it, some other wizard has tried it, meaning the market is flooded.
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I'm pretty sure those planes are infinite, so it's hardly an issue. Also, Wizards who can cast Wall of Iron can often Plane Shift as well, so it's unlikely that the material plane is the only one doing it.
This is one reason I nerf Wall of Iron such that any Iron removed from the wall vanishes (attempting to reshape the wall, such as via Fabricate, causes the reworked part to vanish as well). That way the wall works as intended without being an endless source of wealth. I do the same for Wall of Stone. As for turning people into salt, I just said the salt they turn into has a strange taste to it, a chemical-like burning that's very unpleasant. As such, it has no real value. Three broken spells fixed, thousands to go...
JaronK
Also, the rulebook doesn't tell us what type of salt it is. Everybody just assume that it's kitchen salt (IE NaCl), because that is what is most common to assume. You could just as well have a KCr2 Which is very pretty.
Also, even though you can't eat the salt, you can still use it as a building material. Which would still make it pretty valuable.
I usually just make the argument that if you do it, some other wizard has tried it, meaning the market is flooded.
You could also make the argument that it's extremely low-quality, impure rock salt, which is roughly equivalent in value to the cost of refining usable salt out of it. The way the spell works could also suggest that it turns it's victims into epsom salt instead of table salt. While epsom salt is nifty stuff in the modern era, I can't imagine it having many practical uses in the dark ages.
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evil spas r' us... bathe in the remains of your enemies....